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Completely agree. There's currently a Kickstarter to build a wall around SF to keep the Burners from coming back after Burning Man. Frankly, though, my first thought upon seeing it was "Geez, the Burners are the only people left in SF who are really SF-ish and weird anymore.

SF has changed. It's becoming Manhattan West.



Honestly I see Burning Man as a sorta weird expression of the same elitism, except in this norcal style. Rather then these tech/artists/trustafarians/whatever investing their energy into arts and music in public spaces in the Bay Area they work year round to build a completely inaccessible community hundreds of miles away and light it on fire. Nothing more indulgent than that in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about it...my burner friends (most are techies) do some incredibly weird and impressive things as part of Burning Man but why can't some of that happen right here in the Bay for everyone.


> why can't some of that happen right here in the Bay for everyone.

Because then all of the people that protest things like high-rise apartments, and Google shuttle buses will show up to protest that too.


I'm not advocating a protest...I'm advocating that us techies should focus our extra energy for creative activities locally and share the, rather than keep them exclusive with this desert party.

All these well known famous tech founders such as the FB guys or Larry and Sergey are big burners and certainly participate in arts there but are nowhere to be found right here in SF/Oakland. Same can be said about my peers sadly.


The grandparent is saying that the other residents of San Francisco who have no interest in going to Burning Man and protest stuff like Google buses would protest the art as well, whether it is in the form of an actual public protest or by opposing permits/funding at the local politics level. Especially when it comes to Burning Man art, one man's master piece is another's unnecessary traffic jam.

Many, if not the majority of the most interesting, art pieces can't even be safely installed or operated (yes, operated in the case of art cars) anywhere near a suburban or urban environment. Where else can you build several climbable three to five story buildings with labels like "Bank of Unamerica" and "Goldman Suchs" [1] just to destroy them in a blaze of glory more symbolic than the art itself? Where else can you drive around a giant party boat [2], explore a sunken pirate ship buried in the playa [3], or watch action movie style explosions light a giant effigy on fire [3]?

If you've ever seen the LED lights lining the Bay Bridge a few years ago, that was an art project costing in the same ballpark as some of the most impressive Burning Man art (i.e., like the dancing lady now found on Treasure Island) and took several years to get properly off the ground with all of the local politics involved in installing something on a major landmark.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KPrLgWHMF0

[2] http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/21/fashion/21DISRUPT1...

[3] http://blog.burningman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/pier2_...

[4] https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7414/10302625835_f9a0f51bef_b....


Wow, how about:

http://abc7news.com/technology/naked-sculpture-in-san-leandr... http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g60713-d1... https://thebaylights.org/

Not to mention countless parties, maker spaces, artist spaces, (eg: american steel), and many other space which are all very open to newcomers and hold a lot of parties and host and support all sorts of arts.

As for the indulgence of burning man, put in a certain way, anything but work seems like an indulgence. So you're going on a cruise? Putting all that fuel oil into a remote inaccessible place and slowly lighting it on fire? Or a road trip - really, burning all that petrol?

As for _my_ burner friends, most of them are NOT "techies".


There are some strange contradictions here. There's a huge overlap between burning man culture and tech culture. Part of the sentiment against burning man is because of this. The world may not be as simple as you think.


Yes, there is a lot of overlap. But there used to be, too. Burning Man was the place where the weird and the tech came together.

These days, with $600+ tickets, it is just a rich kids place to go. But there are still all those warehouses full of weirdos that burn and remain in the Bay Area. Just because Burning Man is now frequented by rich frat people doesn't make it too much less weird and anti-puritanical, the way the SF Bay Area used to be.


Your comment sounds like it could have been written by someone who had never been to Burning Man. There's kind of an idealization at play in your comment, almost a "noble savage" thing. Ticket prices have increased $190 in the past 15 years. The $10-$20 yearly ticket price increase is pretty insignificant next to what people pay for costumes, art, etc. You're going to one of the least hospitable places on earth, bringing in all food and water, bringing a bunch of art and electronics, then setting it all on fire. It's never been a particularly inexpensive undertaking. I remember being a broke kid in a soma warehouse and having to sell my ticket for rent money and being really bummed. Now I program computers and have money to spend on art to bring to burning man. I'm still the same person.


> I'm still the same person.

Are you, though? What would your younger, broker (perhaps more idealistic?) self think if they met modern-day wealthy-you? Would they like you? Everyone changes as they age. For most people, they become some variations of more mature, more cynical, more conservative, and more set in their ways.


There is certain irony in a group of people who favor open borders, open and anarchist societies, ect, trying to erect physical, social, and "legal" barriers to keep undesirable people out.


Okay except it's clearly a huge joke, and refers to Burning Man principles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=159&v=PO_r6ndZRZY


> SF has changed. It's becoming Manhattan West.

That feels about right. Except that it's nowhere near as tall.


There's a peculiar phrasing of this statement. Would you happen to originally be from the Pittsburgh area?

We're dealing with a similar phenomenon here. We have a lot of Colleges and Universities and big money is coming in and heavily recruiting people. Instead of a large number of start-ups, we have a culture that favors going straight to work for big businesses.


> SF has changed. It's becoming Manhattan West.

Just in time for Manhattan to try to become Brooklyn West.


No, Manhattan is becoming Mall of America East.


“America has only three cities: New York, San Francisco, and New Orleans. Everywhere else is Cleveland.”

So now we just have New Francisco, and a half-bulldozed New Orleans?


You inspired me to look up the origin of that quote, which was actually quite an interesting (albeit inconclusive) investigation; see http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/18/cleveland/


I'd always heard Tennessee Williams, but impressive due diligence. It's interesting that Cleveland only gets tacked on as the butt of the quip when it has problems and white-flight in the mid-1970s.


It's not a Kickstarter, it's a parody. You're right about the sentiment, though.


I dunno, building a wall around SF sounds pretty SF-ish and weird to me.




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