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What is worrying about this is that some people are in real physical danger because of this leak. It probably seemed like fun and "social justice" for the hackers but it's not.

There are people who live in countries where adultery is punishable by death. Likewise for being gay. There's already one person from Saudi Arabia who expressed his concerns on Reddit but there's likely to be a lot of other people affected.

And that's not counting unbalanced individuals that might act on the perceived knowledge that their SO cheated on them.

The people who released that leak are criminals and will have destroyed relationships, destroyed lives just for the sake of their ego.



What is more worrying for me is that people in real physical danger would hand over that kind of information in the first place. There's very little stopping an employee at a company from selling this information to governments in these countries, or employees originating from these countries being forced to divulge the information.

The real issue is that this information was freely given up in the first place. Hacks like this might make people think twice about privacy, so maybe it's a good thing in the long run?


Why is that worrying? If you're a gay Saudi Arabian (for example) then the only way to be safe is to be celibate. That's not an option for many people. If they weren't hooking up on AM, they'd be using some other service, or making discreet passes at acquaintances, or visiting places where gay people are known to frequent and hoping very strongly that it doesn't get raided while you're there. AM was probably one of the safest options available.


Well it would be nicer if being a gay Saudi Arabian wouldn't get you killed.

As for why it's worrying: giving this information to a private company like AM means it's probably going to be leaked. It's worrying that they have to give this kind of information and will end up getting physically hurt for it. The hack is irrelevant as they would end up like this anyway. Is it not worrying for you?

Will each hack or private disclosure be worrying? Because obviously this will happen again. So for me, it's worrying that they're in a position where this will happen.


The hack itself is worrying. The fact that people will give information out to third parties, in a manner that is potentially life threatening, in order to satisfy their sex drive isn't worrying to me, because it's an inherent part of human nature.


Ah interesting! The hack itself does not worry me at all - I fully expect it and many subsequent hacks on most or all privately held data. A data breach requires a single slipup by any one of thousands of people - it's inevitable in my opinion and does not really worry me.

That people will give information that will cause them harm does worry me though. So we're worried by the opposite things here! Also a good lesson in how the values we have change everything.

Your approach would be to try and prevent hacks to private companies in the future (futile?). My approach would be to try stop people from giving over this kind of data (futile?). I think both of our approaches are probably futile.. even more worrying!


Here's my thinking.

The fact that people can get killed for their sexuality is the worst bit, and also the one most amenable to change. There are many societies where being outed like this wouldn't be a life-threatening situation, so it can be done. Of course, turning a place like Saudi Arabia into one of those societies is somewhat difficult, but it's a worthy goal.

Hacking a company's computers and exposing people's private data is also bad, but much harder to change. I'm not sure we'll ever achieve decent computer security. Stopping attacks on the other side, by convincing people not to try, is probably also not feasible. So stuff like this will probably keep happening.

Then we come to the other end of the private info, where people give it away. I'm skeptical about ever changing this too, but I think the particular case of homosexuals in places like Saudi Arabia isn't very instructive. That a person will risk their life by giving their potentially life-threatening private info to a company in order to gratify their sexuality is predictable, and doesn't really say anything about the possibility of convincing people to be more careful with their info in general.


People living their lives as they want, in spite of the threat of violence, has long been the vanguard of social change.

Forcing them further underground is never a good thing in the long run


yeah, but this argument quickly becomes a slippery slope. If you start questioning whether or not they should have released their private information in the first place, then you can just as easily start questioning whether the countries should be physically punishing these people for that same information. So, what's the real issue? It depends where you draw the line.


>What is worrying about this is that some people are in real physical danger because of this leak.

Everytime Tor is compromised, not matter how bad the people being hunted down, do we not risk the same thing happening to innocent people caught up (say government dissidents in certain countries)? Every time someone finds a way to break encryption and uses it to hunt down someone instead of immediately patching it, don't we run the risk of people who, by our own morals, are innocent being hurt if not killed?


Cry me a river. If you are that concerned about the actions of Saudi Arabia stop paying taxes; it is your tax-payer money and your government that props up that hideous regime.

You do not have the right to argue on behalf of the people of whom you sponsor oppression.




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