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Tesla Semi truck unveil set for September (twitter.com/elonmusk)
65 points by vvanders on April 13, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 50 comments


I don't understand why people keep expecting them to look like modern trucks. I think in terms of visuals, the movie Logan did a really good job of imagining what a driverless truck could/would/should look like: basically a sled with a container on top.

The movie used them as part of a dystopian future, with an accident caused by one of the trucks' negligence, so let's try not to do that. And I hope we'd be better at clustering them into container "trains" for efficiency instead of seeing them all separated. But in terms of design I see no reason why you'd have a faux cab on the front.

This also answers the battery issue. Why swap batteries when you could just swap sleds. Each sled could carry a container ~100 miles from one charge station to the next. When it gets to a station just park behind the next sled and slide the load from one to the other. New sled can keep going, old sled can recharge while it waits for the next load.


They're not releasing a driverless truck unless I'm missing something big? So they'll still need a cab and still look like modern trucks.


But they're also not claiming it isn't. ;-)


They're strongly implying that they plan to sell the trucks sometime in the next few years, which entails that they aren't self-driving trucks.


Tesla is trying to compete with the announced Nikolai 1.[1] That's hydrogen-powered, a fuel cell/battery system.

[1] https://nikolamotor.com/one


Interesting. When Nikola announced that truck last year it was a Hybrid with a turbine generator and a battery pack. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103987_nikola-one-2000-...

Anyone know when and why they changed their plans?


Probably when they found out how much gas turbines cost.

Turbine engines don't seem to get any cheaper below bizjet size, where they cost a quarter million or so. That's why light aircraft are still running on pistons. Ford built a turbine-powered semitrailer truck prototype in 1964.[1] Worked fine, but cost too much.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tODsl0-oW0Q


Don't forget the famous Chrysler turbine car: unit cost across the 55 unit production run estimated to be $386,000 per, in 2016 dollars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car


Seems vaporous. 1M miles of free fuel cell refuels? I simply don't have faith that Fuel Cells are going anywhere.


Does this guy not have enough he already has his company working on. I'm really looking forward to see how they solved the weight to energy density issue for this.


I'm guessing it will be closer to a large moving van rather than a real over-the-road semi. Probably 200-300mi range.


A natural gas fuel cell would probably be the best solution.


It seems highly unlikely Elon Musk would've gone for such a solution. I think he would've preferred not to go into semi-trucks at all if it meant he had to make a natural gas hybrid, and he would've just waited until batteries were good enough for semis.

I doubt he'd even combine it with hydrogen, as Nikola says it will, considering how much Musk has been criticizing hydrogen as impractical.


I don't think batteries will ever get to that point for over-the-road trucks.

Here's a random blog that discusses electric Semis: http://www.johnsavesenergy.com/ElectricSemiTrucks.html

He uses 300 miles as a discussion point, which precludes over-the-road use.

There are still a large number of semis that are used for short haul runs, where a 300 mile range would be sufficient.

EDIT: I'm targeting OTR trucks in my comments because that's what self-driving tech most closely targets, and at some point drivers will be replaced. When drivers are replaced, there is no value at all in refueling periods. Currently, drivers use the refueling stop to rest and refuel themselves, but with Self Driving Trucks, you want to be in and out as fast as possible - or perhaps have in-motion refueling similar to aircraft refueling.


Can anyone speak to the hydrogen issue?

I have no background in the topic, but battery tech does seem to be a long-term limitation.


Hydrogen atoms are very small and hard to contain. The atoms tend to diffuse into the structure of whatever is containing them and can cause blistering or embrittlement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement



My guess is frequent, automated, battery swaps.



Not sure the CEO of the competition is a great source, especially on these boards. With all the smack Musk has talked about ICEs over the years, I don't expect compliments from GM.


Lutz is a brilliant automotive businessman IMO and fought hard to make GM innovative before he retired. He's not some empty suit beancounter


>He's not some empty suit beancounter

I agree with you. But there's a pretty heavy burden of proof on any denigration of Tesla around here. That and I think some of the old guard of auto manufacturing would love to stick it to Musk.


Is yet another piece of Tesla FUD in an endless stream really contributing to the discussion? If the article has merit, it can be its own submission, but this looks like the same old gnashing of teeth and beating of breasts that I've seen hundreds of times. Headline: "Tesla competitor thinks Tesla no good!" Seriously, there's nothing there that hasn't been said for years.


Apple will never be able to sustain it's pricing pressure since PC manufacturers produce their hardware at a loss.


also mentioned by Elon

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/852581046625345536

The next gen roadster is going to be a convertible.

> Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the company will unveil its semi-truck in September.

> The company will also unveil a pick-up truck in 18 to 24 months, Musk said.

I can't imagine they are creating a new frame for a semi truck or pick up truck. I've got to imagine they are going to partner with someone like they did with lotus for their first roadster.


Elon Musk is not worried about the limits of your imagination.

Honestly, the advantages of building a frame around the electric drivetrain are so huge, I can't imagine them reusing one built for internal combustion engines at this point.


I think I remember reading somewhere that the pick-up truck would be based on one of their existing frames.

I would imagine that the new roadster will also share a frame with the Model 3 (assuming it's a different frame from the Model S)


I would be very surprised if this was a pick-up truck ala a Chevy Silverado and not a pick-up truck ala the Honda Ridgeline. As in, it will be a cab with a bed, but will be built with a unibody chassis instead of body-on-frame. Independent suspension all around instead of a solid rear axle.

I really can't imagine Telsa trying to compete against the F-150.

--edit changed "won't be a cab with a bed" to "will be a cab with a bed"


He said semi-truck, not pickup truck. Very, very different.


You must have missed the part where we're talking about a Tesla pickup truck. Because we're talking about a Tesla pickup truck right now.


Didn't Tesla hire some semi truck people from Mercedes?

https://electrek.co/2016/09/22/tesla-semi-hired-engineers-da...


How heavy would one of these suckers be with a battery? Can our infrastructure handle that? Transports do enough damage to the roads as is.


96 Leaf modules in an 'eota' that Manzanita Power Systems are building https://www.facebook.com/106095429411883/photos/a.1759851290...


investors will probably wish Elon could just stick to one thing and finish it


>investors will probably wish Elon could just stick to one thing and finish it

Have you read these threads? There are people here who claim to have invested all their savings into TSLA, and yet seem fairly clueless about the industry in which Tesla competes. The more things that get announced, the more they want in.

Tesla haven't yet proven that they can reliably build a cheap, profitable vehicle at scale, but still people talk about the next one and the next one...

Meanwhile, the Bolt is out, reviews are positive, and HN doesn't talk much about it. Not Elon, I guess.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/2017-c...


I am in the perfect demographic for the Bolt: I am a previous Chevy owner (with a car that ran well for over fourteen years!), I want an electric car, and I'm not afraid of being an early adopter.

I can't buy one.

Chevy doesn't appear to be manufacturing them beyond a handful of review units for magazines like Motor Trend and a small number of end-user sales in states where they need the ZEV Credits. People are unenthusiastic about the Bolt because they're matching Chevy's apparent level of enthusiasm.

The rhetoric around the Bolt ("Chevy did it! They were first at scale with a $35k car!") is arguably even more disconnected from reality than anything people are saying about Tesla. The Model 3 isn't a compliance car that is masquerading as a serious effort. Tesla is planning on selling it nationwide. They didn't restrict pre-orders to California and Oregon. Setting aside the actual cars, these are big differences.

At Chevy's current roll-out pace, my Model 3 pre-order will arrive long before any local Chevy dealerships are willing to sell me a Bolt (while passive-aggressively pushing me towards an internal combustion vehicle the entire time).


The Bolt is lacking a couple of things that are very important to Tesla enthusiasts:

1. The charging situation, and the ability to drive long distances without much trouble. Thanks to the Supercharger network, Tesla's cars can plan a route to get you from nearly any point A to any point B without too much longer of a drive than most people would do in a gas-powered car. The Bolt can use third-party chargers, but AFAIK it takes longer to charge and there's no concerted effort to ensure coverage with those. (Here's an article on this from a reviewer who likes the Bolt: https://electrek.co/2016/09/14/the-very-good-chevy-bolt-revi...)

I think this is a bigger point than most people who aren't actually planning to buy an EV think. The Bolt's lack of an answer to range anxiety makes it more of a commuter car, which puts it more in the same arena as the Nissan Leaf rather than any of Tesla's cars.

2. Autopilot. This is a very exciting feature Tesla is pushing very hard that the Bolt doesn't have at all.

And on top of those, there's also the fact that AFAIK you can't buy the Bolt in most places, which kind of puts a damper on how popular it can be.


But Elon Musk is literally Iron Man/the God King. What does it matter if I don't understand anything about the industry, Elon will lead me to the promised (of mars, or hacking the matrix).


What didn't he finish, which isn't clearly work in progress?

And product development goes in clear phases. There is no product development on S,X or 3, the 3 is in production preparation now. So it makes completely sense, that the product dev teams are now working on vehicles past the Model 3.


The Model X slipped repeatedly. Autopilot on the new "full self-driving" hardware is way behind schedule. The Model 3 remains to be seen, but even it their rosiest scenario, it seems unlikely they'll be able to get through the existing backlog by the end of next year.

I like Tesla and got one of the first reservations for the Model 3, but it seems pretty fair to say that they often take on a lot more than they're actually equipped to deliver.


Yes, the Model X slipped - but it was finished. The other items you name are clearly in progress. It is possible they might slip, but especially the Model 3 launch seems to be quite on track.


Yes. Musk's announced tasks for 2017:

- Get Model 3 production line working. (He said he'd live at the plant to make that happen.)

- Get battery factory to full operation.

- Get Falcon Heavy to first launch. (Already years late, but supposed to launch this year.)

- Get Brownsville launch facility built and operating. (First launch scheduled for 2018.)

- Get crewed Dragon working. The US currently has no manned space capability. (First crewed launch delayed again, to 2018.)

- Get self-driving working reliably.


Don't forget about his plan to dig a tunnel under LA.


If you're talking about the Hyperloop, Musk never intended to build that. He just released the design because he thought somebody should.


He has another side project to dig tunnels under the SpaceX campus ("The Boring Company"). It should be noted that tunnels under cities already exist and are called subways.



If anything, I think these announcements are also meant to keep stock price high.


Bingo. Musk understands how many things work, including Wall Street.


What does his interaction with these initiatives and projects actually look like, on a scale of designing and implementing them all by hand to announcing stuff and then going home and relaxing on the beach?


He's just unveiling it. It could be slated for release a number of years from now. I don't see the big deal.




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