Speaking as a non-programmer, this is spot-on, for me. I've tried to go through various tutorials and start learning to code over the past few years (all the while wishing I'd gotten a CS degree rather than finance), but could never force myself to get through a whole book and really start to understand what's going on. Recently, though, there's been a need within my business for a small, (theoretically) simple application to handle part of our workflow. I finally have a concrete end goal in mind, and have been flying through a PHP book (Head First PHP and MySQL, which I quite like so far), because I actually want to learn enough as quickly as I can to put together a working version of this application. Granted, I'm still following the tutorials in the book and going through the admittedly hokey examples, but now I can see how each of the different elements I'm learning will actually help me build something useful. It's a whole different experience for me, learning to code when I actually know what I want to build.
You need smallish goals and little projects that you actually care about. Start with javascript for some UI effect for your blog, for example. Starting with a whole PHP/MySQL site may be too much at once. And let's face it: the first few sites you create are going to barely work. I am a database expert but it took me a really long time before I understood SQL well enough to be comfortable with it, and a really long time after that before my skills could gel enough to really take off quickly. But along the way I had a continuous need to use databases.
After time your smallish projects get increasing ambitious. Javascript can't do something you need, move up to PHP. I "learned" languages by reading books or even taking classes but I have long since forgotten everything that I never actually had a need to use in the real world. I "learned" C but I remember things from javascript that I learned 12 years ago because I've actively used javascript on and off since then.
You need a CS degree to answer some programmer interview questions and as a quality indicator for kids right out of school, but plenty of really solid developers started learning by taking up smallish web dev tasks that became increasingly and increasingly ambitious over time. To get really good it takes years and years of doing this though.
>That's interesting, the prevailing opinion here on HN seems to be that being in 'finance' is better then in CS.
I strongly disagree, as to HN's "conventional opinion". I think most participants and probably most lurkers, would say that finance is probably, on average, a more lucrative field, but a CS degree from a no-name university would probably be better for getting into finance, the field, than an equivalent finance degree. This assumes you're working for someone else.
A finance degree is less useful for a technology/coding business/startup than a CS one. This is the raison d'etre of the forum. I would also contend that for getting FY$, personally financially independent rich, a startup is probably at minimum equivalent to working in finance. As such, neither is a bad choice, but the CS degree has better options.
I work in finance and have an undergrad CS degree.
It's common for folks in finance to have undergrad technical degrees (e.g., physics, math, CS) and graduate degrees in something more closely related to finance such as an MBA or MS in quantitative finance. (Although the pure quants will usually have a PhD in math or physics.)
But frankly if you're a technical person IMO finance is a ghetto: once you're in, it's hard to get out. In no other industry can you make as much money to do work that generally speaking is substantially behind the curve technically (e.g., pre-STL C++ is the standard development language and mindset, and most of the time you're just moving stuff to and from CSV files and databases). But if you're disciplined with your spending it's a great way to save seed capital if one day you want to jump ship and try a startup.
RFI: What do people think of quant finance Bachelors and Masters? Obviously it depends on the programme and school, but what do Ph.D. mathematician or pfysicist quants think of them, and otoh, what do traders and such think of them?
I don't get the sense from HN that being a finance major in school, especially as an undergraduate, would be better than CS. As someone who is doing both finance and CS courses as an undergrad currently, the jobs for finance majors all end up being analyst positions. A CS degrees gives you much more, better options if you're good at it, and allow more flexibility if you want to go out on your own. Finance is only glorious if you're one of the handful of people who get a potentially soul-crushing i-banking job as an Excel drone with opportunity to move up or do an Ivy MBA.
It's different in my case because the traditional finance career bath does not appeal to me. I went to a large state school in a (relatively) small city, got married, and stayed here, which doesn't bode well for a career in finance. I got a job at a small regional bank in commercial lending, right when the credit crisis was hitting its stride. Stayed there for about 6 months, then left to start a company with my wife. My finance education has come in handy running the business, but I feel like I would have also benefited from some CS education as well. A half CS/half finance program may have been a good fit for me (not that something like that exists where I went to school).
I hope that makes some sense. Obviously it's hard to say where I'd be if I had gotten a degree in CS (or if I'd have made it out alive!); hindsight is of course 20/20.
You bet. It's very much an individual thing, but I also think that with a CS background, you're more likely to be able to create a "sky's the limit" situation for yourself financially. More potential for knocking something completely out of the park, if that makes sense. Of course, the very best people in finance will also be able to write their own ticket. I think the real focus should be on what makes the most sense for an individual given their personality, learning styles, and situation.
It seems many simply wish they had gotten a different degree in general. It may just be a "grass is greener" scenario. Or like somebody who learns a lot of math knows: when you finally understand something and look back it seems trivial. Following that, worth less than some not understood problem.
But even if being in finance is better than being in CS, in places where performance is rewarded being in finance with a CS degree is better than being in finance with a finance degree.
