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I lost most of my hearing in my left ear in a head-on collision with a drunk driver. No other injuries. The audiologist said that my eardrum was in the kind of state you usually only see in battlefields from exposure to large explosions.

People are always surprised when I tell them this was my only injury, and as a result I've always wondered how common this type of injury is with vehicle collisions. This is the first thing I've seen which makes me believe that it's a lot more common than people suspect.

Very cool! I hope this is taken up by other brands as well.



There was a blogpost I read a few years back written by someone who damaged their hearing after dropping a porcelain toilet lid. They actually ran some back-of-the-envelope calculations to estimate the decibel level, I recall it being shockingly high.


There was a pretty good HN comment thread about it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16723099

From the linked thread:

""" 5. The stupid toilet bowl lid only fell about 8 inches. How could it damage my hearing so badly? I looked up the speed of sound in ceramic, divided by the length of the toilet bowl lid (and divided by 2 since the fundamental vibration is a half wavelength). This predicts 3.5 kHz.

6. This frequency is in the audible range. Using the short dimension of the toilet bowl predicts another (higher) frequency. The toilet bowl lid probably resonated at both those frequencies and their harmonics, putting all the energy into just those specific wavelengths.

7. The toilet bowl lid was not chipped or damaged, so the impact energy went mainly into sound (& internal heat) Maybe like half the impact energy went into sound energy. This lid was concave up like an antenna, near my face when it hit, focusing the energy into my face.

8. The energy travels into your inner ear and the cochlea. The pressure wave is strongest at some distance down the cochlea depending on frequency. Since the toilet bowl lid put all the energy into SPECIFIC FREQUENCIES, it was concentrated onto specific spots in the cochlea.

9. Apparently, this concentration of energy was enough to damage the hairs -- to bend them over like trampled grass -- and I was concerned it could be permanent. My hearing was only slightly better the next morning. It was like everybody was still talking at me through kazoos. """

Fascinating. Be careful around dropping shatter-proof ceramics, I suppose!


Be careful dropping glass bottles into recycling bins too; they pose nearly the same problem - they don't usually shatter and the sound escapes the bin upwards towards you.


Why isn't this taught to everyone at a young age? I had no idea this could happen and it kind of terrifies me that I can lose my hearing so easily like this without having any clue.


Then go buy the toilet lids that don’t drop with the acceleration of gravity, i. e., “soft close”. Hearing loss or not, I don’t want to hear anyone dropping the toilet lid in the middle of the night.


The culprit was actually a lid on the tank. I've never seen a toilet lid, soft close or not, that doesn't have plastic pieces that prevent full direct contact between the lid and the part below it. They'll deform under pressure, taking the noise level down from unbearable to just loud.


Yeah, I saw that it was the lid after I posted. In fact, I even remember the original post, and at the time thought, "huh, never even thought of that". Welcome to middle age, where a lot of stuff starts to occur to you after the fact. :-|


Even though this isn’t the same thing op is talking about, I also vouch for these. Slow-close toilet lids are amazing. The only problem is when you visit someone else’s house, you have to be conscious when using their toilets else you end up slamming the lid accidentally by reflexively just starting the closing process and finding out they aren’t slow-close lids (BANG!)


I don't believe we're talking about the same thing.

The ceramic lid usually goes over the water tank.

(also, you can't control all the toilets in the world)


> (also, you can't control all the toilets in the world)

But imagine if you could!


This is the first time I've heard of it, and I studied engineering.


Wish I knew this back when I worked in bars, emptying big bins of glass into the outdoor bins. Learnt quickly to look up when I did it.


How would looking up help, though? Unless I’m misunderstanding, the sound would still be coming up straight towards your face/ears.


You look up by bending your neck and your upper back, so when your body is bent forward, looking up will actually move your head (incl your ears) further away from the glass bin.


What the other kind commenters said. I just found it worked. I like the analogy of the funnel, pointing it 90 degrees from where it usually is. OH&S wasn't such a thing back in my day (and I'm not even that old), smoking inside was still a thing (banned in that Australian state I was in a long time ago now). I'd use the air conditioners as a break to get some fresh air.

But anyway, a big bin full of glass being emptied was damn loud, but all the concerts I went to wouldn't have helped.


rather than your ears concentrating/funneling the sound into your ear canal, they would be muffling it since the direct sound wave direction would basically now point into your earlobe


I've been surprised at how loud emptying a bucket of aluminum cans into an empty bin can be, the half open lid also reflects the sound back toward you.


Yes, that's the recurrent loudest noise I experience in my life. Not so many times per year obviously, but more than concerts or disco. I should try bending knees to put my ears below the top of the bin.


I've started tilting the bin at a 45 degree angle, and sliding the bottles in. Seems to help somewhat.


Yeah, and it’s even worse if the bin happens to be in an enclosed space!


I recall reading that discussion when it was first posted. There was something I didn't understand at the time, and now that it's brought up again, I want to ask: He mentions there being a fairly short window in which an ENT physician can try to treat the damage, after which no treatments will be possible. I thought all hearing damage was permanent, always, notwithstanding the potential new advances in growing the hairs back. So what exactly could they try, and what difference does time make?


This comes up fairly often on tinnitus fora. Basically there is some "consensus" that a shot of steroids within a very short window, ideally less than 24 hours, can help. Unfortunately, the most common response to damaging one's hearing seems to be to sleep it off for a week and hope it gets better, making it difficult to conduct a study on early responses.

There are studies though, and my conclusion is that it's still mostly inconclusive. Still, if my tinnitus suddenly worsened id be down at the doctor's begging for the steroids.


I had minor hearing loss after a festival, went to an ENT around 72 hours afterwards and was prescribed steroids

After a week my hearing was back to normal, so at least in my case it worked (although I guess there's a question of whether it would have recovered anyway)


Also works as an emergency short term fix for vocal folds as well - some singers if they have inflammation just before a big performance will take some, however, it's not without risk as you can cause additional (potentially irreversible) damage.


If I understand correctly some of the most common painkillers are steroids.

I might have seen Ibuprofen mentioned explicitly in relation with hearing loss.

Can anyone confirm or deny if taking Ibuprofen could help if one is stuck without a doctor?


> If I understand correctly some of the most common painkillers are steroids.

Most over-the-counter painkillers (other than acetaminophen/paracetamol) are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. OTOH, if the reason steroids work against hearing injuries is anti-inflammatory properties, NSAIDs might also work.

(OTOH, regular use of NSAIDs and acetaminophen is known to sometimes cause tinnitus and hearing loss, so, there’s that...)


Well, ibuprofen is certainly not a steroid - it is an NSAID (non-steroidal anti inflammatory drug)


Aha, thanks for clearing up : )


Ibuprofen is a NSAID (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drug).

[Edit: okay I was beaten to it :-)]


They prescribe systemic steroids. Steroids reduce inflammation and might help recovery a little.


I wonder if screaming when you realize you're dropping it would provide some protection.


If your reflexes are that good, sure.


To avoid confusion here, I think we are talking about ceramic cistern lids and not toilet bowl lids as the parent quote actually mentions.

The post starts off mentioning cistern lids, and the title mentions cistern lids, but lapses into toilet bowl lid about the time the parent starts quoting.

"2 I was fixing the mechanism inside the tank of the toilet. The only thing left to do was to put the ceramic lid back on the tank"

So guys, still no excuse for not putting the lid back down when you've finished ;)


Porcelain toilet lids and the metal plates on weightlifting machines are among the most dangerous common objects when it comes to hearing damage.

I've heard of cases where the plates on the machine were stuck together with grease and the user had selected a much lighter weight than usual. A number of plates below the linchpin were all the way up by the bonds of the grease before slipping and falling back down. The metal on metal impact rings out like a bell, right next to the user's head (in the case of bench press). Really nasty!


fragsworth mentions being the victim of exactly this issue with weightlifting machines (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16723769) in the post linked by coke12 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20700966).


Thanks for linking this. This is what I was referring to, I had forgotten where I had heard of it happening.


Another good reason to barbell bench and skip the machine!


Or dumbbell bench with those heavily rubberized weights. Dropping them is about as close to silent as you can get, and the exercises are the ultimate in form-focused weight training.


> heavily rubberized weights

They're called bumper plates! They're so you can drop a loaded bar without causing everyone to glare at you - and also to help avoid the plates bouncing onto your foot.

But you shouldn't need these on the bench. If you bench without a spotter and get stuck, move the weights to your hip and then sit up and shift them slowly to the floor like you're finishing a deadlift. (I've always called this the 'strongman escape' but it has no formal name afaik)


Haha, I’ve always heard it called the “roll of shame”.

The bumper plates are also round, which makes it easier to get a deadlift into position, and makes it land better when doing reps. The first 45 is a bumper plate, then add regular plates from there.

Resist the urge to bounce off the bottom of the rep! :-)


I’m a small guy who used to frequent a bodybuilder focused gym. I can attest to the truth of this.


There's usually some dampening at the bottom of the pile of weights, but yeah it can be loud depending on how heavy and how fast it is dropped.


Even a piece of paper between each weight would surely absorb most of the energy and make it much quieter? Why don't all machines have that?


Good question, I don't know the answer.

I think it also has to do with how rough the surface of the plates is, I believe a bit of a rough surface can help with the noise (some have a very polished surface and I can hear that from a mile)


I've hurt my ears at more than one occasion because of this. It's surprising how loud a porcelain lid can be.

Here's the post you're referring to: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/979583605637877760.html

The TL;DR is that from his calculation the lid dropping could generate noise at 138 dB, and hearing loss happens at around 140 dB.


What makes it worse is that quite a few toilet lids are self closing / soft closing these days. So if you get used to it, you start trusting the lid to close itself and take your hand from underneath the lid while it's still at a height. So it's easy to slam the lid down accidentally.


I would just like to point out that people have been hitting all sorts of things with other things for millennia and the only people getting hearing damage from it were the ones doing it particularly loudly for decades as their day job (i.e. people in loud factories).

This is below the level of terrorist attacks and shark bites in Kansas on the things to worry about list.


Or... Those are the only ones officially reporting it so they can get workplace compensation...

If I dropped my toilet lid, I probably wouldn't officially report it anywhere - not much can be done, after all.


Aren’t airbags essentially explosions going off in your face? Fancy car like mercedes probably has 10+ of them going off around you

Especially the one in the door right next to your head could be bad for your ears I imagine ...

Never thought of that before. Thanks for bringing it up


I've had my front airbags go off twice and didn't notice any impact on my hearing. It was just kind of a loud bang, but not to the point of causing discomfort. Maybe it varies by car and type of accident though.


>Fancy car like mercedes probably has 10+ of them going off around you

And a really well sealed cabin because they don't want any road noise creeping in.


Exploding into a bag, though, so isn't most of the energy absorbed by the expansion of the bag?


The bags do displace a lot of ambient air while they are absorbing those explosions.


Yes, but people regularly get burns and light blunt trauma from airbags. The US versions of many cars even have slightly weaker airbags, because many people don't wear seatbelts and might be killed by a full-strength airbag.


You've actually got it backward. FVMSS regulations in the US require airbags that are more forceful than the UNECE regulations in place in Europe (and other countries which follow Europe instead of the US). You're correct it is about seatbelt use, though. No seatbelt requires a faster airbag to restrain the occupant.


In modern cars the airbag will not fire if the seatbelt is not used. This is the reason why we even have seat belt detectors that make this annoying noise - not just to annoy you but also to figure out whether its safe to fire airbag or not.

Getting hit with airbag into the face when wearing eye glasses for example... that would suck, would it not?


This is completely untrue. The airbag will fire regardless of whether the seatbelt is worn, though it will be much less effective at restraining you. Out of curiosity, where on earth did you get the idea that they don’t fire?


This is just false. Look up a crash test video. You very much do hit the airbag despite the seatbelt.


I’ve taken up wearing earplugs while driving.

I also work in a noisy environment, and it occurs to me that the road and engine and wind noise is probably loud enough to have a negative impact on hearing over time. Less so in newer cars, but both mine are over 10yo.

Also, in the event of a collision I’m protected.


At least in most of the usa, wearing earplugs (or earbuds, headphones, etc) while operating a car, is illegal. Please check with your local PD to be safe. You may just be putting yourself and others at higher risk by attinuating your situational awareness.


I wear earplugs when I ride my motorcycle for longer trips on the highway. When people see this, they say "that's dangerous, you'll hear less" but it mostly cuts the wind noise, and counter-intuitively I end up hearing more than I would otherwise.


They make flat-frequency-response earplugs, too. They don't cost much more, and you get to keep the highs that provide context while still reducing the overall sound intensity. I love them for both motorcycle rides and concerts. You'll find several hits if you search for Musician's Earplugs.


I have some hearing damage with mild tinnitus and find it hard to follow discussions in noisy environments (bars, very noisy public transport, even some restaurants). Custom fitted flat frequency earplugs are the perfect help for these situations, I always carry them in pocket just in case.


Would you expound on this a little and perhaps mention some brands? I also have issues following discussions in those kinds of environments. I can hear the people talking, but it blends into the background noise and becomes very difficult to isolate the actual words.


Sure. My plugs are Elacin ER. I walked into a hearing aid/protection shop and got a mold of my ear canals made. Plugs were made to match the mold, took a couple of weeks and about 200€. Noise reduction is done with an exchangeable filter with different options for reduction levels, I'm using 25dB.

Not the cheapest but if you don't lose them the should last a decade.

Let me know if you have any other questions!


Thank you very much!


Etymotic Research

https://www.etymotic.com/


On a motorcycle, earplugs are a necessity at speeds over 35 MPH due to wind noise. I've found that the earplugs really only cut out the wind noise for the most part though and if anything, my awareness of other cars is increased.


> At least in most of the usa, wearing earplugs (or earbuds, headphones, etc) while operating a car, is illegal. Please check with your local PD to be safe. You may just be putting yourself and others at higher risk by attinuating your situational awareness.

Actually, it seems like it's legal in most states? [0] Unless your local municpal code says differently.

[0]: https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/headsets/


Proper situational awareness while driving is a visual task. As people age, they begin to lose hearing and ability to localize sounds due to age and noise exposure. Leaning on hearing for safety becomes a liability.


That’s incredibly narrow-minded. You’re not “leaning on hearing”. You’re using all the information you can get. Hearing is vital.

How else would you know an ambulance is around the corner, about to run a red light? There are things you simply cannot see, no matter how hard you look.


Emergency response drivers never assume they've been heard by any road users and are trained to look for signs of acknowledgement and awareness before doing anything unusual for exactly this reason. They certainly don't blast at speed around blind corners against the lights.


On the other hand driving schools in Europe sometimes make us drive with construction safety devices in order to check if we can drive without hearing anything. They also obstruct the middle mirror (you're supposed to be able to drive with just side mirrors).


As a European with a drivers license this is news to me.


Not even all schools in my country do that, it's nothing standard, just something some schools around me do (and it's encouraged by the police). However I think it's illustrative of the car culture. The center mirror thing is done by all schools though.


When I was learning to drive, my biggest complaint was that I couldn't hear the engine when there was noise in the area - it was a very quiet one. It made it harder to do hill starts and clutch balancing. Now I drive a diesel.


At low speeds, driving around car parks etc, the ear plugs are out and usually have all the windows at least partly open, because I’m those environments hearing can be a huge boost to situational awareness.

I find above 40k/hr my hearing is better with ear plugs because it attenuates the road, wind, and engine noise more for me.


How can it be? Is driving deaf illegal there as well?


When cycling, I find that a simple fleece headband/hat that covers the ears is wonderful at stopping the wind noise, but letting in all the other important noises.


Wow, always putting earplugs in when you drive. Don't get me wrong, it is smart, just I lack the discipline to do it every time.


Well, it mostly involves leaving work with them in and leaving them in till I get where I'm going.

Plus, I've never been one to have ear infections, so I end up with used ones in all my pockets so they're pretty much always on me.

As another comment mentioned, there are flat frequency response ear plugs, Etymotic ETY ER20 are pretty cheap, reusable and cleanable. Not as much dB reduction, but that's better for some scenarios.


You would have a helmet on top if you're driving a motorcycle or bicycle, extra 20 dB is easily had with the right design, plus attenuating wind noise. Combine the two and it gets almost safe level of noise.

And a car would have pretty decent internal damping.

The general traffic is already way too loud. Can reach 80 dBA and even more in tunnels.


When you drive a truly noisy car or motorcycle, you will remember to do it.


Fantastic, someone driving a deadly vehicle responsible for 40,000 deaths every single year, and now they can't even hear anything either.

Hey, but as long as you are ok, right?


The ear plugs I wear are 27dB reduction, so it's not like I can't hear anything.

How do you think the 27dB reduction due to ear plug hearing protection compares to someone playing loud music in their car.

Also see my other comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20702195, reproduced for your benefit here:

At low speeds, driving around car parks etc, the ear plugs are out and usually have all the windows at least partly open, because I’m those environments hearing can be a huge boost to situational awareness.

I find above 40k/hr my hearing is better with ear plugs because it attenuates the road, wind, and engine noise more for me.

Additionally, I've never been responsible for a serious accident, only a couple fender-benders when I was much younger.

Also, as per the site guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.


That's exactly what I am thinking whenever I hear music from within a car passing by. Blanking out driving noises with the car stereo is much worse for aural situational awareness than plugs could ever be.


You do realize that deaf people can drive legally, yeah?


People with double arm amputations can also drive but if you or I decided to go out and drive with our feet it would be stupid.


The difference is that they obviously use cars that are modified and certified for use with foot controls(at least here in EU they are, I wouldn't be surprised if US didn't require any certification whatsoever). You also get a restriction on your licence saying that you can only drive such vehicles. A deaf person doesn't have any restrictions - my point is that there is no functional or legal difference between a deaf person driving and a person driving with earplugs in, the law doesn't specify a requirement that you have to be able to hear to drive.


The law doesn't have to require something to make it not a good idea.

My point was, I'm not deaf, but I'm fairly sure that on average deaf people are much better adapted to life with limited hearing than you or I would be when wearing ear buds. It doesn't logically follow that because a deaf person is allowed to drive we should be able to artificially reduce our hearing ability while driving.


By that same logic, if someone wears ear buds every time while driving they also become adapted to driving with ear buds.


I've had both front airbags deployed in a compact car with closed windows. Impaired hearing on the right ear (left-hand drive car) was the only damage I took.




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