I wish someone tried to compete with iphone 12 mini instead of producing these utterly niche phones:
- just make it comfortable using with one hand (5 inch or less)
- don't put 100W 32 core processor and 16 gigs of RAM
- place a decent camera without 5 eyes staring from the back panel (I get anxiety from looking at the back of that Samsung Galaxy that has these)
- burn the fucking monobrows or cutouts for a cam on a front panel, place everything you need (cam, front speaker, sensors etc) above the goddamn screen
- if you provide a fingerprint scanner, for fucks sake, don't make me lift up this 200g brick so I can grope the scanner on the back
- 3.5mm audio jack? hello? I don't wanna bother about having my earcocks charged
I'm looking for a decent substitute to my 4.5 yo Zuk Z2 and I shit you not, there is no single phone that satisfies everything I described. The closest is Xperia 5 II with 6.1 inch screen, but at least it has audio jack and normal looking front panel...
I usually skim these threads looking for tips for a phone like this. I'm actually thinking of buying the iPhone 12 mini because I haven't seen anything else like it. Something that's important to me is a good camera and long support (I don't care to change my phone every year) or else I'd just get one of the ~200 usd cheap phones.
I pretty much have the same requirements you do, aside from the audio jack, because I actually enjoy not having to deal with the wires. I don't use the headphones for long periods at a time, so battery life isn't an issue. Bonus points for audio quality being good when I use them on my shitty HP laptop.
Get the iPhone 12 mini -- you won't regret it. It's a safe assumption that most HN members spend a lot of time on their computers, so their phone should embody what a mobile device truly is: a very small, mobile computing device. Why have a big one if you're operating a big computing device most of the day, anyway?
My mini is so transparent to me, I often have to check if it's still in my pocket, and I absolutely love that. It has the same computing and photography capabilities as the larger iPhone, so you don't miss out on any of those benefits either.
I've been waiting for this size device for years, and it's sad to hear they apparently don't sell well. It's the best iPhone I've ever owned.
I've considered 12 mini too, but... I'm too addicted to the openness of (a rooted) Android: I can delete whatever I want and potentially get a bootloop, I can throttle the CPU and GPU so the phone isn't a hot potato in my hands while surfing or get critical screen minutes when I can't charge the phone, I can have whatever files I want on the storage and managing them from PC is as easy as managing the USB flash drive. Plus the whole CSAM thing is just beyond my understanding.
But I do enjoy wireless headphones with PC at home, it's quite handy to be able to talk at the daily meeting while making a coffee or watering the plants :)
I understand the openness angle, but personally, I don't feel it with my phone. To me, it's basically an appliance. I have next to no apps installed. I only use it to call people, listen to music, take pictures and as a GPS (on a motorcycle, so its being waterproof is important).
I currently own an iPhone 7, but before that I had multiple Galaxy Ss, each with a custom mod. The iPhone is the first one I don't get the itch to modify. It just gets out of my way. The Samsung android install would always end up getting on my nerves. That's why I'm actively avoiding Samsung phones now, and I'm looking at models with Android One or that can easily support some aftermarket ROM. Trouble is, my hardware requirements (good camera + waterproof) pretty much exclude those phones...
I got to use briefly some iphones starting from 3GS, and honestly, I like how smooth they feel in day-to-day usage, but the biggest drawbacks for me is absence of full featured adblocker (ublock origin), itunes hassle, and no alternative way to install apps (app store only).
I also consider my phone to be a pretty dumb tool, but I also occasionally browse web and do banking with it, so I'd love to use iphone if Jailbreak wasn't so fragile. Instead, I have to set the phone aside myself from the scratch :)
I was looking at the Android One thing, which on paper is supposed to provide exactly that. I'm not following this scene particularly closely, but I've seen somewhere that this program is unlikely to continue for too long...
How about just no front facing camera? Why do we need a camera pointed at our faces constantly whenever we use our devices? For someone who never takes selfies, the whole concept is absurd
Cutout and fingerprint scanner on the back is the hard pass for me, unfortunately. I had been exposed to the phones that didn't have to sacrifice usability so the normies can enjoy 5% more screen space of a IG/TikTok content
You should be able to hide the notch on most phones [1]
Dedicated fingerprint scanners on the front are gone, and won't be coming back. A dedicated fingerprint on the back is the next best thing, as they are fast and super reliable. The alternative, under-display fingerprint scanners are much wonkier. There are some phones with side fingerprint scanners, but they are not so common.
I've avoided big phones as long as possible, but you get used to larger phones pretty quickly. Just get an accessory that helps to use with one hand, e.g. a ring case.
You'll have to compromise on one aspect or another, sooner or later.
The closest phones for your requirements are Sony Xperia 5 III (available Sep/2021), Asus Zenfone 8 and the Pixel 4a.
By them just existing (hiding options and ring cases) it is evident, perhaps in the most ironic way, that notches and enormous dimensions are fucking dumb and user-hostile.
Notches are irritating people so much devs have to include option to make them less irritating. Phones got so fat and large that it is impossible to not drop them, and case manufacturers descended from the above with ring cases (do you have to get engaged to the smartphone these days?)
Fingerprints on the back make no sense to me precisely because of how I'm using the phone: it rests with screen upwards within my vision range while I'm working, and when I see the LED blip (I also can't wrap my head around that most phones don't have LED anymore and instead light up the whole fucking screen on any notification), I double tap the screen to see if it's important, if it is, I put finger on my super reliable and fast fingerprint on the front, and resolve whatever "emergency" with just one finger. If we talking fingerprint on the back, I have to either always place the phone screen downwards and rely on sound/vibration, or exercise in heavy lifting.
I'm content with fingerprint on the side because it allows to have the same workflow as before, although I'd have to unlock the phone with two fingers at least. I share your distaste to the underscreen fingerprints because I've experienced myself how slow and unreliable they are.
I'm leaning towards Xperia 5 II because some time ago I've bought Z5 mini for mom and she's been using it with much pleasure. 5 III seemingly is locked 4K and I doubt it will result in a respectable SOT
It's probably a good habit to put your phone facing down, or even far away when you're working, and only check it periodically every hour or two. [1]
If there are any urgent/important notifications/calls you need to deal with urgently, consider using something like PushBullet to mirror them on your computer.
I must've confused it with other model, the naming on this series is atrocious, thanks for clearing that out!
>It's probably a good habit to put your phone facing down
I'm not really bothered by the smartphone addiction, in fact, my daily usage is 2 hours at most, where half an hour is reading before the sleep and the rest is me using it outdoors
> Notches are irritating people so much devs have to include option to make them less irritating.
No, I think they've always been optional. I quite like it - Android just puts the usual top bar up a bit higher than before, with the notch in the middle, and then the app just gets a big screen to occupy. Doesn't work so well in landscape mode, but I don't really use that.
Conversely, fingerprint sensor on the back is very convenient if you mostly carry the phone in your pocket, and only occasionally pull it out - it's very easy and convenient to hit it with your finger as you do so.
The iPhone 12 mini, at 5.4" is already smaller than the iPhone SE at 4.7". Which means it is actually the smallest iPhone in the lineup. And is actually smaller than your Z2.
I dont like the notch, but it isn't much of a concern during usage, especially when iOS has left right swipe down short cut.
I do sort of wish ( or at least used to wish, now I am figuring out how to move off Apple ) Apple made a iPhone SE with what you said, place camera and speaker above the screen and uses Touch ID on the side. i.e a slightly taller iPhone 12 mini with Touch ID instead.
If it doest have an interest browser or email or any of that other stuff, what makes this a ‘smartphone’? It doesn’t even have a camera, so you can’t call it a cameraphone.
It's just barely a feature phone at that. If I were in the market for one I might even entertain this, but I think I could get used to sending text messages on a $20-30 flip phone again if I go that route.
It's capabilities are:
1. Contact list
2. Phone calls
3. SMS (MMS?)
4. Alarms
5. Music
I had all that on an LG flip phone in the mid-00s. Plus basic web capabilities (which was great, I could see where the buses on my bus route were so I knew if it was worth waiting or if I should just hustle on foot).
I feel like the more practical version of this is the Apple Watch cellular version. You can do those things easily but stuff like wasting time on IMs or checking emails is cumbersome. Its the ideal device when you want to get away from distraction (you can turn off non essential notification) but still lets you make a phone call or receive one if its important. As well as streaming music.
I assume everyone using the OP phone also has a fully featured phone to go with it so the OP product does not seem very compelling.
This 100%. I seldom, if ever, carry a phone with me when I leave the house. I finally activated cellular on my Apple Watch and it is liberating. I find it nice for those times the spouse says "pick up bread" when I am out. Otherwise, there is nothing on my phone that I need to use when I am out and about.
A feature phone with wifi hotspot and WhatsApp support. So this is below the baseline of feature phones circa 2020.
> My feature phones at least had little time-wasting games built in.
TBF, I think one of the points of this is to provide basic communication needs without the distracting parts of smartphones that promote time wasting. But it seems to have cut things too far, to the quick as the saying goes. Feature phones already exist and don't cost $300 and have excellent battery life and international support and are more useful than this without going to the extreme of being as distracting and time wasting as smartphones can be (without discipline).
My reading of the Nokia phone I linked was that it was a pretty minimal system, so no I wouldn't say that phone was a smartphone. Ever used a system with Windows or macOS running in kiosk mode? Where it's really just an embedded system to let you look up train times or find a book in a library? That's not a general purpose computer anymore, even though it's running on the hardware and OS that would produce a general purpose computer. It has been constrained to the point that it is now a specialized feature computer.
I'd draw the same line between feature phones running a "smartphone" OS and actual smartphones. If you constrain the OS so that it can't run to its potential, at some point you cease to have a smartphone (even if technically it could be). Just like an iPhone isn't really a general purpose computer. It could be, but in practice it is not, because of the constraints placed on the system via iOS and the App Store.
Back in early 00s, some phones would let you tether via Bluetooth.
As far as apps - many feature phones had J2ME. There were plenty of games for that, some quite fancy, but also useful apps - e.g. I remember using Bombus for XMPP chats, and there was Opera Mini for web browsing (it didn't actually try to render everything locally, but instead offloaded layout to Opera servers - the phone then got a vector image of the page it could easily render with scrolling & zoom).
I've been using the above phone for around 6 years. It's not the best thing in the world but it does the 5 things in your list and typing isn't bad.
Its biggest weakness is if someone sends you a picture you can't really see it, but if you're only occasionally texting and calling that's not a deal breaker. My friends and family know the best way to reach me is through email (which I access on my workstation).
My dad has a flip phone, and it's really not usable for sms. Group messages are totally broken, anything multimedia shows up as blank, and it's a total mess.
Probably a modern flip phone (KaiOS?) wouldn't be so broken, but I don't think you can even get those in the U.S.
> Probably a modern flip phone (KaiOS?) wouldn't be so broken, but I don't think you can even get those in the U.S.
You'd just have to buy the phone from overseas (one of Nokia's models for example). For someone that particularly decided they wanted to use that type of phone, it wouldn't be a huge inconvenience.
Yeah the touch screen is pointless. I would think having a low featureset , a smaller phone without a giant screen would be the goal.
I like the punkt approach better. Your phone is a phone / access point when you need Internet. It comes with signal for texting but not much else. I think ideally I’d like a camera as well, since that’s not really a distraction. https://www.punkt.ch/en/products/mp02-4g-mobile-phone/
Why is this a "pre-order"? This outfit was posting "reviews" over 16 months ago, as if it were a real product, back in March 2020.[1] They had a product back in 2018.[2] They had some Indiegogo thing in 2017-2018.
They shipped, there’s a couple on eBay being bid on… if I had to guess Kyocera poached their supplier of 600x480 2.8” e-ink displays with their KY‑01L, which you can buy by the dozen
I just bought a 2019 Nokia 105 for my son (his school doesn’t allow smartphones on the grounds). $20, battery lasts two weeks, radio, MP3 player, flashlight but no camera/internet. Lovely
I was gonna make this comment. I currently use a 2019 Nokia 3310 (3G). Seems to be on par with the Light Minimal "smartphone", except for the hotspot. A hotspot on the 3310 would be nice, it's not like the opera mini browser can actually be used on any site more complicated than HN. And of course the screen on the 3310 is simply crap.
The Nokia 8110 4G „banana phone“ is cheap feature phone which allows tethering and wifi hotspot. It’s running an older version of KaiOS, based on FirefoxOS. Can be easily rooted and bloatware is removable. Battery lasts up to a week if data is mostly turned off and flight mode turned on during night hours.
When I was looking for a phone (and ended up buying the 3310) I was eyeing the KaiOS Nokias as well. From what i could gather then the KaiOS software was kinda hit or miss. Some reviewer where complaining about crashes and such. There seemed to be several different hardware and software revisions going out under the same model names. Maybe carrier was a factor too. To be fair, in retrospect it has become clear that that was true for the 3310 as well. Noone I have talked to seems to have exactly the same sw/hw versions as I have.
The price is a factor for me as well (yes, I'm a pennypincher). The 3310 is about half the price of any KaiOS phone.
The simple solution is to pick up an iPhone SE, block the browser and any other problem apps with parental controls, then have a friend set the passcode so you can’t reenable them without asking for permission.
I’ve offered this service of in loco parentis to everyone who tells me they want a simpler phone without the distractions, and no one ever takes me up on it.
It’s easier to stop using these apps. I stopped using whatsapp years ago, first announcement was panic in some cases “How can I reach you!” but it all solves itself.
Instead of Spotify I went back to MP3s and bandcamp. I sometimes use Apple Store or Youtube to find new songs/recommendations.
For messaging I have a desktop where I can FB message family and friends, so only at set times. Same with other messaging, only at set times.
People can text me, but somehow people forgot about that :)
Reducing dependency on chokehold services is a good thing in my book.
For directions an old fashioned gps navigator works fine or downloaded openstreet map.
You probably can't expect WhatsApp on any niche platform, ever. It's proprietary and already stopped support for Windows Phone and old Android versions, both of which were at that point gigantic bestsellers compared to such a project.
Because KaiOS is one of the most popular mobile operating systems right now, even at second place in India. Of course Facebook wants access to that market.
More specifically, the answer is "in active development" for directions and Spotify, and no for Whatsapp.
Personally I have no use for Whatsapp, so once Spotify and directions are up and running I'll be pretty interested in grabbing one of these to replace my phone.
My main concern is the call quality. When calling is essentially all you're reduced to in terms of connectivity, I would want to be sure those calls go smoothly. I remember hearing bad things about the call quality in the past with like mic issues or something, not sure if that's been resolved by now.
I am precisely in your court app wise but I would also need my calendar. I don’t consider it stressful to have and myself and my family are pretty good about adding all of our plans to it so we know what’s going on.
The DIY version of this (for me) is to use one of the spare android devices laying around, install lineage (or your rom of choice), strip it down to just what you consider bare essentials (for me it would be gps, music and voice-to-text (my primary input method). Might be an interesting project, deploy an alternate daily driver designed to be used as little as possible.
Things will get interesting when postmarketOS can finally support some devices in a meaningful "daily driver" use case (it can't right now). The earliest uses for it will look a lot like this feature phone stuff.
This. And I bet that a lot of people keep using their Light Phone for a couple of weeks, perhaps a month or 2 but go back to their smartphone. And then it’s e-waste. Think hard if you want this, try with an old phone or try living with your phone on flight mode and do everything by cable first. If you keep it up, consider something nice like this.
They sell an image of a simpler life but taking this step back is harder than you think.
This is really what I have wanted for years. Signal is the key app for me to make the decision, and barring that, maybe a Matrix client. If this were to be my private, personal device that only close associates get the contact info for, I'd need those things.
This was the gap that I think Punkt ( https://www.punkt.ch/en/ ) phones had, where they are for voice and minimal texting, with all the right design ideas, except voice as a thing is diminished becase younger people intuitively get that synchronous communication imposes opportunity costs on their time. I'd hypothesize that most people who prefer voice communications do not desire a quieter minimal experience, as they naturally seek the stimulation of a voice interaction and therefore also find the busyness of smartphones stimulating, but more people who prefer asynchronous text will pay a premium for a quiet minimal experience.
Even if the messenger clients piece were done with optional physically removable storage, because I'm suspecting the initial market for this phone is an odd intersection of creative, upper income, either exec or self employed, who are above being subject to tech - so basically tech people. I could see it becoming a status thing, where nothing quite says FU money like being able to afford patience and manage your own time.
But take my elderly mom for example. She won't be caught dead with a smartphone. Too many things to screw up. So she soldiers on with a dedicated wifi hotspot thing, wasting the 4GB/month plan's unlimited free calling and multimedia messaging and using a separate cell/phone jack gateway with its own SIM and its own plan. I've said before, just put the data SIM in a surplus older smartphone, use that as a hotspot instead, and we can at least text when the computer is messed up again. Won't have it. Note, she lives far enough in the countryside that other internet access is not available and she doesn't need more than 4GB per month, not even close, and the 128kbps fallback after you've used up the 4GB would still keep her email working.
A simple phone like this that can still do wifi hotspot might be acceptable. Maybe. She may not be the only person like this.
I too thought of elderly parents, who currently use dumb phones, using the number pad to send SMS (rarely) and text-to-speach to receive them. The interface is awful, but they would have a worse experience with an Android device or iPhone. Their first (and maybe only) complaint about the Light Phone is the screen seems rather small for aging eyes. They won't be getting one, because it won't work with the network in our region, but maybe something like this in the future.
I feel like this phone would benefit from having a larger battery. 950 mAh is not bad considering there aren't any battery-draining apps, but having around 3000 mAh would make this more attractive as a sort of device one always carries with.
I'm probably missing something but I don't understand where the 1-2 days number comes from; just for comparison: I have a 'dumb' phone which when used only for occasional calls and texts lasts about 3 weeks. I have an e-reader which gets used daily for about an hour and lasts like half a year on that charge (ballpark, it's so long it's impossible to remember). Both have batteries in the same range as this phone, how does it get such low numbers?
One factor could be that the 'light usage' mentioned (which really should be explained imo) includes hours of playing music, but still, 1-2 days is not a lot then?
Yeah I'd assume they're saving a lot of battery usage on the display. I would think long battery life would be one of the biggest upsides of this device, but they went with a smaller battery and thus advertise "1-2 days of 'light' regular usage", which really isn't blowing out any current smartphones. I just wonder if you're using it to listen to music throughout day via bluetooth, how much is that smaller battery going to bite you?
Gave it to my kid. I bought it under the premise it would have maps, Uber and other useful services, but it took over a year for even the music app to be added (and you can even add songs via usb).
It’s not usable as a daily phone at all. It was a nice idea but by the time the software is complete there will be much cheaper e-ink tech around.
For me, this was the true dealbreaker as otherwise, this ticks a lot of boxes for me. It seems like such a clear cost saving move without any benefit to the customer and makes the already steep price unbearable.
I really don't see the point of this device. There are a lot of feature phones with just the same capabilities, and even a little more (like basic web browsing support). Some of them can even have WhatsApp in case you need it (e.g., international text message). And they're way less expensive than this one (which is $300!).
The point of this phone is not to have “a little more” features but to have the fewest amount of necessary features: phone, calendar, gps (coming soon?), etc. The purpose is literally described in the first words you read on the site: “Designed to be used as little as possible “.
You are not forced to use these other features when feature phones have them. And they have all the advantages of this one. Some even have bigger batteries and cost less than a third of this one.
Sorry for the angry sarcasm, I could have expressed that better. I’m having a bit of a bad… year honestly.
My point is that these features, even on feature phones, are often designed to be used as much as possible, ie addictive. The Light Phone is trying to do the opposite, which is a welcome change imo.
Feature phones with a classic keypad and bad T9 implementation are not addictive at all, trust me. And they cost a twentieth (~$15) of what the Light Phone costs. If you need the hotspot feature then just buy an additional 4G hotspot for $50 more. You are still spending only a quarter of the Light Phone price to get the same features and non-features.
You can’t be tempted to use what you don’t have. If you’ve got a problematic relationship with a thing - be it alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, gambling, social media, or whatever - then it’s usually a lot easier to kick the habit by removing the thing from your life entirely, than to keep it in your pocket and constantly have to intercept that habit of taking it out without thinking.
Then just buy a $15 feature phone which do not have social media apps either, + a $50 4G hotspot if you need one. Same features and same non-feature, still a quarter of the price.
I’m so glad you informed me that I don’t have to use features which are designed to addict me! Won’t you please tell all the other millions of people who find themselves addicted to their phones?
I feel like a custom OS (in addition to the hardware) is the wrong approach here. The primary use case for this type of device seems to be folks that want to disconnect but still have access to non-distracting tools (uber, maps, music, text/call).
The problem is, there's a long tail of apps users consider tools, and I don't think Lightphone will support them all nor will app developers write them for this tiny market. For example, a user might think it's critical that their pandora music is available, or spotify, or....
One thing I've been considering is moving away from having a phone altogether and just relying on an apple watch. Big enough market that all the essential "tool" apps you'd want exist but the form factor itself prevents distraction (good luck doom scrolling instagram on a watch). The fact that the only data entry mechanism is voice, is actually a feature for me, it forces you to only use it for the essential.
The downside is that I'd need to carry around another device for emergency work stuff. Maybe an iPad because that form factor is limiting as well, you're not gonna pull it out for 2 mins randomly and doom scroll.
> I feel like a custom OS (in addition to the hardware) is the wrong approach here.
The Docomo Card Keita [1] was the exact same hardware yet ran Android. Lightphone II really should have just been an unlocked version (sim and bootloader) with a custom skin…
> One thing I've been considering is moving away from having a phone altogether and just relying on an apple watch.
A. The battery life will not last a day in my experience AND the Apple Watch isn’t really usable while charging.
B. The UX of a smartwatch is a huge downgrade compared to any smartphone/feature phone. Wearing a watch on a wrist and operating it with the other hand is not an ergonomic operation beyond minimal interactions.
A. All the more reason to just use the watch for the essentials :)
B. I think thats a feature not a bug. I don't want to be doing anything beyond minimal interactions. Call an Uber. Get directions. Respond to an important text. Answer/make urgent phone calls. Let my family know where I am.
> I don't want to be doing anything beyond minimal interactions. Call an Uber. Get directions. Respond to an important text. Answer/make urgent phone calls. Let my family know where I am...
Minimal interactions on an Apple Watch are checking the time/complications/notifications. Calling an Uber is not a minimal interaction in my experience…
That said I’m now eager to hear your own evaluation. Please share if try the Apple Watch experiment (there’s also rumours of a new iPad mini launching next month if you want to try that too)
For any kind of work that isn't drawing, I would recommend a MacBook[0]. If you don't need heavy stuff you can go with the Air. Put it in a shoulder bag and you are good to go. Bonus, you can put other things in your shoulder bag as well.
You are going to have about the same limitation with the laptop as the iPad, but more so. On the other hand, when you do pull it out it is also much more useful, because it has a keyboard.
[0]: yes you can use other laptops, I am assuming alooPotato is deep into the Apple Ecosystem.
Back in the day I had a Nokia phone with StraightTalk. It has a flashlight, text, calls, and a few games. Battery lasted a week. I programmed my computer to send headlines and email subjects as texts. It was great.
About 6 months ago my wife and I moved our cell #s to a VoIP provider, canceled our cell plans, and flipped our phones to airplane mode. (WiFi/BT but cell modem is off)
Offline maps can lead us to free WiFi hotspots when we need it, but otherwise when we are out and about we are forced to live in the moment .
When we do need to look something up in a store or whatever we connect to WiFi and deal with it, because we still have functional phones. They are however limited as they run CalyxOS so there are are only webapps and open source tracking-free F-Droid apps. No intrusive profit-driven social media algorithms trying to manipulate more of my attention away from me.
Also battery life in airplane mode is over double.
When we want to waste time Iwestill do, but I am intentional about it. We have media center PCs, laptops, and desktop workstations but they don't follow us around.
It has been a major mental health win, not to mention a privacy win as our location can't be logged and sold anymore. And saving like $100/mo on 4G plans.
Be cautious about leaving wifi/bluetooth on. Your device's mac address can be logged even if you don't connect, and location data brokers could easily report to advertisers or other parties where you've been seen.
You could get most of that saving by switching to pay as you go; at least in Europe/Scandinavia. I spend perhaps 20 USD per year on my mobile because I hardly ever make any calls or use mobile data.
I have one of these. The screen keyboard has a very high error rate that makes it highly frustrating to use. Also, the battery life is surprisingly short. I get less than a day with almost zero use on mine. The idea of the phone is great, but the implementation is sorely lacking. Particularly at the $400 price point.
Nice. Approaching the NoPhone [0] in capabilities and positive impact on society.
But seriously, I really like the idea behind the Lightphone. And also I think there are opportunities to really increase the attractiveness of the device. Why only focus on it being "designed to be used as little as possible"?
In such a device you can also focus on Really Good Privacy, Sustainable Design / Manufacturing (a la Fairphone), Open Hardware, FOSS extensions, Open Community (around the product). All in all a comprehensive set of USP's to be added.
(And talking about Privacy, the 11 trackers on the website can be removed first. This is low-hanging fruit)
I bought one of these from the second kickstarter wave. After waiting about a year to receive it... It didn't work with my carrier. I waited a few more months with no updates or ETA on support, and then I returned it.
I’m still waiting for the behind-the-scenes book. When I mentioned this to them a few months ago they were all too happy to refund me which I thought was weird, but I declined.
I bought the phone on Kickstarter. When it arrived, pretty disappointed with the form factor. I was expecting like a zen like iPhone but got a Kindle from the 90s instead. Don't recommend it.
It’s like going back in time. How long has it been since you needed to worry that your phone bought in one part of the world might not work in another?
I wanted a minimal smartphone but with maps and messaging. I ended up with a Unihertz Jelly 2, with LineageOS and a minimal launcher that I installed from F-droid. Supports all the Android apps, but it's keychain size make it impractical as a time waster. Highly recommended.
Interesting idea but not really an interesting proposition without maps and whatsapp/email. It's nice these are planned but planning means little. I prefer just disabling apps via ADB on Android when I need a non distracting phone.
So the only way to do messaging on this phone is insecure, severely limited carrier messaging (SMS)? This will probably turn away many people, even ones looking for simplicity.
Friendly reminder: the average person (and likely more than the average person) literally does not care nor even consider something like that. I know most of us on HN do - but overwhelmingly, most people do not.
The target demographic for this phone is likely to be the completely non-tech savvy/your old grandparents.
The real demographic is the Silicon Valley iPhone user that fancies themself a minimalist and has an extra $300 to spend on a second phone for fun because it seems cool.
Main issue for me is missing iMessage makes this an immediate no go for that. It’s not really their fault, but it’s the truth.
It isn’t actually, near as I can tell as a user. It’s actually pretty painful to use to get anything done.
The demographic is, ‘someone who needs basic phone functionality, but is trying to go cold turkey on distracting smart phone functionality’.
If you need Signal, you’re probably also not in the demographic. The idea is - you should want to NOT be able to check Signal, because that is crack to you.
Phone plans are so expensive for what it is providing. The phone itself doesn't need internet from what I see.
I get the idea, but having a super sharp camera under my fingertips any given moment makes me feel happy. I don't use social media, but I love checking my stock/crypto portfolio often.
This does not emit any blue light like traditional backlit screens.
So is that just a straight-up lie or does this phone not have any front-lighting or back-lighting at all? The photos clearly depict the screen showing white and grey, which, in case you failed elementary school science, contain blue light.
> The Light Phone II uses a technology called "electronic paper," also commonly called E-Ink. It was made popular by e-reader devices like the Kindle. The screen is characterized by its low power requirements, high visibility & contrast, and wide viewing angle. When viewing the screen, there is no backlight like you would find on a smartphone.
But it kind of doesn’t matter. The web site quite clearly said that the screen doesn’t emit blue light, and since the screen is e-ink it presumably doesn’t; it only reflects it. The site made no such claim about the separate screen light.
(Live by the “technically correct is the best kind of correct”, die by the “technically correct is the best kind of correct”. ;) )
No, it's not. Although as many other scientific facts it is often being stretched beyond the extreme in order to use it to legitimize crazy theories and/or sell products. That is a very common practice.
Blue light used during dark hours alters our sleep rhythm because our brain "tunes" itself according to the surrounding environment and light. A blue light tells our brain "we're in the morning, wake up up!" while a soft yellowish light tells the opposite "slow down, dusk is coming". Exposing ourselves to blue light or light with lots of blue components (example: cold white lamps) during night forces our brain to work in a different way that is not the one it should naturally at that hours. Spending many hours a day in a similar environment very likely alter the sleep hours with some side effects.
So would a blue led on a phone kill anyone? Not at all, and it wouldn't either harm or do any serious damage; it's just really annoying to look at, especially in dark environments, but surely wouldn't be as bad as using a 6000K lamp to light a bedroom or as a TV backlight.
Unfortunately blue leds are extremely cheap to produce, so that pretty much every consumer gadget, especially those cheap gimmicks from the Far East, use them profusely even in places where other colors would be, also functionally, more suitable.
> No, it's not. Although as many other scientific facts it is often being stretched beyond the extreme in order to use it to legitimize crazy theories and/or sell products. That is a very common practice.
As far as I've been able to tell, there's very little in the way of literature that actually supports the "blue light" claims, but quite a lot of things which just self reference to support it.
> Unfortunately blue leds are extremely cheap to produce, so that pretty much every consumer gadget, especially those cheap gimmicks from the Far East, use them profusely even in places where other colors would be, also functionally, more suitable.
Huh? To begin with, all modern LEDs are blue, if you see a white LED, it's a blue LED, if you see a red LED, it's a blue LED. This is just down to physics more than anything, it's also much more economical to produce the same chemistry and just use phosphors to emit the color you actually want.
Blue LEDs emitting actual blue light however are vanishingly uncommon in any product at all, I don't recall the last time I've actually seen one. If you're talking about white LEDs being used in products? Well then yes, they will obviously contain blue light.
> To begin with, all modern LEDs are blue, if you see a white LED, it's a blue LED, if you see a red LED, it's a blue LED.
It is true that "white" LEDs are really blue or violet LEDs coated with phosphors that glow white or yellow (RGB LEDS with independently controlled red, green and blue LEDs are rare and only used in things like color-changing light bulbs).
It is not true that "if you see a red LED, it's a blue LED". Red LEDs are still made with semiconductors that directly emit red light (and the same goes for green, etc.). You can look at the spec sheets for LEDs on a distributor like Mouser and see the material used for each LED. The first red LED I came across directly emits red light using AlInGaP. I have never seen a "red LED" that uses a blue LED to excite a red phosphor. That would be even more expensive.
Surprisingly, they actually are blue dies with red phosphor. Keeping all the colours the same forward voltage makes driving them a lot easier, as well as having all the colours in the same production process.
It seems conceivable that a red LED based on phosphor excitation could exist somewhere where having the same forward voltage for different colors was essential, but I haven't been able to find one.
Taking into account the different forward voltages for different LED colors is a standard part of designing an LED circuit. One of the LED data sheets I have on hand for some 5 mm LEDs includes a forward voltage chart with 1.9 V for red and 3.2 V for blue.
Do you have a part number for a red LED that operates by illuminating a red phosphor with a blue LED?
> A blue light tells our brain "we're in the morning, wake up up!" while a soft yellowish light tells the opposite "slow down, dusk is coming".
I have no idea where you live, but in my sunny location the sunlight streaming through my window that wakes me up every morning is overpowering yellow. I associate "bluish" with darkness rather because evenings do become "bluer" before becoming dark. In fact, I have a colour changing LED bulb in my room, and I switch to yellow lights if I want to work longer at night - I find it more soothing on the eye, while it helps me be more "awake". The whitish / blueish light of the LED actually makes me feel drowsy.
On computer screens, I find that whitish / blueish light strain my eyes more, and thus apps like Flux - that change the display to a more yellowish tint - is more soothing and less stressful on the eyes.
- just make it comfortable using with one hand (5 inch or less)
- don't put 100W 32 core processor and 16 gigs of RAM
- place a decent camera without 5 eyes staring from the back panel (I get anxiety from looking at the back of that Samsung Galaxy that has these)
- burn the fucking monobrows or cutouts for a cam on a front panel, place everything you need (cam, front speaker, sensors etc) above the goddamn screen
- if you provide a fingerprint scanner, for fucks sake, don't make me lift up this 200g brick so I can grope the scanner on the back
- 3.5mm audio jack? hello? I don't wanna bother about having my earcocks charged
I'm looking for a decent substitute to my 4.5 yo Zuk Z2 and I shit you not, there is no single phone that satisfies everything I described. The closest is Xperia 5 II with 6.1 inch screen, but at least it has audio jack and normal looking front panel...