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No real way to hide from those you want to ignore now.

Then, umm, don't add them as friends.

BBM has statuses for delivered (the message has arrived on the recipients device) and read (they have actually opened it). It's very very useful. You know at a glance where a conversation stands, you never have to "follow-up" to check a message arrived, you know if a message isn't in state D not to bother because they'll be out of reception, etc. It basically makes a BBM conversation much more natural than on SMS, or any of the big chat networks.



"Seen" is not enough information for a sender. It immediately triggers more questions: Are they reading it now? Are they responding now? Are they ignoring me or everyone? Do they not think this is important? Where are they anyway?

I perform triage on my work Inbox several times a day, even on weekends. I have "read" your "important" message, but not really. I've prioritized it for real review on monday afternoon, after I take care of important issues (as prioritized by me). It's better for me and you if we just pretend this moment never happened.

Being in the dark sounds like a bad thing, but it's not. It's better for my mom to think that I haven't seen the long message she wrote on Facebook. After all: who knows what I'm doing?

In reality, I'm fucking around during this conference on the distraction that is Facebook, I'm touched by her message, but I can't exactly reply until tomorrow.


> Being in the dark sounds like a bad thing, but it's not.

I was struct by this yesterday for something seemingly completely unrelated.

I've ordered a new laptop. An awesome thing about the company I bought it from is that they show average build times based on recently processed orders on their website, presented me with a flowchart of their build process and time estimates (generic estimates), and displays the current status in their process for my laptop.

Being in the dark would have left me not thinking much about it, as usual.

Sometimes I'm even surprised when I get a delivery because I forgot I ordered something (even if I ordered it the day before, sometimes; I do most my shopping online) because it's a non-event, and I know it'll arrive when it arrives.

For a big item like my new laptop it might cross my mind now and again, but until a week or two from ordering, when they indicated it will likely be ready, I wouldn't think much about it.

But now, because I have access to the information, I check it several times a day to see if there's an update. Can't help myself. I keep wondering how far they've gotten. There's no practical benefit to me at all. And it's creating an expectation that wasn't there before, of something happening soon.

In retrospect, I might even have preferred not having the information.


But now, because I have access to the information, I check it several times a day to see if there's an update. Can't help myself. I keep wondering how far they've gotten. There's no practical benefit to me at all. And it's creating an expectation that wasn't there before, of something happening soon.

Hence the addition of the FB "feature" in question. It's not for your benefit, it's for Facebook's benefit by boosting your participation.


Exactly. You hit it on the head.


> No real way to hide from those you want to ignore now.

Then, umm, don't add them as friends.

Extreme point missing: "ignore now" is different than "ignore always"

Mild point missing: Sometimes it is socially expedient to "not see" a message from someone while you are busy doing other things, even though you read and saw it. Much better than going through explanations of how, "gee, I'm busy, its not that i don't like you, just got other stuff right now, and no matter how important this is to you, my stuff is more important at the moment, ill get to you when i can", as opposed to "oh hey, just saw this, what's up?"

I'm sure you'll advocate for the former method, because of some crazy strict truth thing, and people should be less emotionally sensitive and blah blah, but the fact remains: people can be pretty sensitive. This little white lie makes interactions much smoother and avoids unnecessarily hurt feelings.


I was forced to signup to facebook because people felt offended when I said I didn't have an account. It's a given in my social circle to have an FB account; saying you can't add someone for whatever reason just means you don't want to.


I deleted my Facebook account due to the exact same peer pressure.


This feature is also available for SMS (at least with certain carriers in the UK). Putting * 0# at the start of any text message will cause the carrier to text you when the message is read. The * 0# is hidden from the other person.


How does the carrier know when a message is _read_?

In GSM networks _delivery_ reports are a SMS feature. You get a delivery report when the SMS is delivered to the phone.


You're right, my mistake. It's a delivery report rather than a 'message read' report. However I find that often it amounts to the same thing these days.


>BBM has statuses for delivered (the message has arrived on the recipients device) and read (they have actually opened it). It's very very useful.

BBM will tell you if a message was delivered successfully, but it's also capable of telling you if a message was read. The catch of course is that the user can control whether or not they want people to see if they've read the message. Ditto for iMessage.


When it comes to iMessage, I wish people would turn read receipts on. The default is off, so most people don't bother turning it on, which almost makes the feature useless.


I'm glad it's off by default - I think furyg3's post above does a perfect job of explaining why.

I'd also add another issue that makes them bothersome - lots of times I read short messages via their incoming notifications which (afaik) doesn't update "read" status. So if I had read receipts on, I'd often appear to have not read something for hours that I actually had.

Not that these issues make read receipts for short messages useless and I suppose it's nice to have them as a feature for groups of people that want/need it for whatever reason, but I think opt-in is the right default for it.


It's not a feature, it's a privacy bug. Why would I want people to know that I'm ignoring them?


> Then, umm, don't add them as friends.

This completely ignores the reality of how people use Facebook, as if one could partition every personal relationship in your life into two homogeneous groups "friends" and "not friends."

Yes, I know you can have friend lists on Facebook, but this feature clearly embraces its uniformity.


It's worth noting that G+ was intended to solve the fine-grained partitioning of people, and yet, no-one I know uses it regularly. It's FB for friends, LinkedIn for work contacts, for most people.


You missed the point. Your original comment was an oversimplification of how people interact, similar to the argument "If you're not doing anything bad, you have nothing to hide."

The way people interact with other people can not be reduced to a finite set of values, such as "friend or not friend" or "family member, lover, friend, acquaintance, co-worker". In other words, this is not a Facebook vs. G+ dilemma.

The problem here is the fact that Facebook has, yet again, limited the way we interact with other people by imposing their own structure and rules: if you don't want a person to know you're paying attention to them, don't pay attention to them.

Your proposed solution of "don't add them as a friend" is even more restricted. Maybe it's your way of interacting with people, but I don't see how it's justified to try to impose it on everyone else.


No, this grouping is not the intent but the consequence. What you actually do on G+ is tagging people and viewing them by tag. After a while, the tag-cloud per person over several accounts is a very nice statistical description. Most will tag you as friend or colleague, others will put you in a partition where they group acquaintances by hobby or interest.


> It's worth noting that G+ was intended to solve the fine-grained partitioning of people, and yet, no-one I know uses it regularly.

So... you're arguing that people choose social networks based on more than the presence of a particular implementation of a single feature? Groundbreaking addition to your "all your friends are the same" theory.


No, I'm arguing that partitioning of friends groups isn't a serious (enough) problem that anyone cares.


>This completely ignores the reality of how people use Facebook

Then people need to use Facebook differently. Seriously. What is hard to understand about Don't friend people you don't want to share info with?

This seems like common sense advice, like "Don't knock on the door of people you don't intend to speak to".


I have plenty of people I want to share info with. I can't think of a single person where there aren't times where I want to respond to their message later. Girlfriend, best friends, parents. All of them might wonder why it took me a day or two to respond after reading a message. I know I get grumpy when I see someone has read an iMessage and not responded.


The logical conclusion then is that "the reality of how people use Facebook" is going to change. Facebook (not for the first time) is attempting to shape users' behaviour. I am curious what sort of thinking went behind this change.




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