I'm not saying that I'm approving this company or their products, but I can definitely get behind the idea of paying for OS updates.

Part of the premium we pay for an iPhone or a Mac is to finance the development of iOS/MacOS. We get the updates for "free" but we actually already paid them when we paid the device.

Meanwhile, here it's clear: you pay the device, and then you pay for the OS.

The opposite being the product like with Microsoft/Google.

Or relying on the goodwill of other people (FOSS).

If I take the example of Kagi, I saw how much impact as a customer I have/had on the product.

Meanwhile Microsoft/Google/Apple don't care.

And on FOSS I could _just_ do the things myself, but I'm not an OS dev and I already spend some time on other FOSS projects (I'm writing this message on an Linux computer). Donations are great but they are not reliable/predictable and they don't give you more power to influence the product.

Regarding your question "Why do I need to pay to retain data that is on my own device?", according to their FAQ: "Without an active subscription, certain core services and privacy features will be limited. To keep your MC03 fully functional, secure, and up to date, an active subscription is required." https://www.punkt.ch/products/mc03-premium-secure-smartphone

So the phone won't brick itself and you won't lose access to your data.

But the company itself give me a bad feeling, like Proton, trying to surf the hype and doing lots of virtue signaling.

>I'm not saying that I'm approving this company or their products, but I can definitely get behind the idea of paying for OS updates.

>[...]

>The opposite being the product like with Microsoft/Google.

But Microsoft does offer that, it's called ESU for windows. The problem I suspect is that the cost of maintaining security patches is fixed, and nobody (relatively speaking) wants to pay for it, so other companies like Apple doesn't even bother.

That's all fine but Microsoft is also screenshotting everything, uploading it, then selling you services, pushing ads, mining and training on your data and who knows what else. So you pay both ways.

This statement is wild hyperbole and doesn’t represent the privacy landscape of a default Windows 11 install. Even Windows Recall, an optional opt-in beta product only available on specific hardware, very clearly and specifically in its legally binding privacy policy says that data never leaves your device and is never sent to Microsoft.

Windows is paid for by OEMs. It doesn’t cost much (and it’s free for some classes of devices) but Microsoft still gets paid for it.

Don’t forget they also get paid for a lot of Windows-adjacent services. 365 subscriptions, Bing users clicking on ads, and the whole business ecosystem of Azure, Entra ID, Microsoft Exchange/Outlook 365, etc.

It’s a stupid business model for this product category and shows their leadership doesn’t understand the market.

If you buy a Pixel and flash GrapheneOS, you’re getting a better secured phone, better phone hardware, and for less money if you shop smart.

The only reason you’d buy this product over that solution is that you literally don’t know any better.

If they want to monetize their OS they should just do what every other phone manufacturer does and sell optional but integrated services.

There’s no need to push them as mandatory because a lot of people will end up with them anyway (e.g., iCloud+, Samsung whatever, and Google One).

> I can definitely get behind the idea of paying for OS updates.

From consumer App Store pricing expectations to the notion that FOSS be offered at no cost, expecting everything to be free has damaged small software for decades.

There is no other way to support software. You have to pay for it.

Even with this, it still won't be able to compete with the big guys and their enormous ad funnels. But it's better than forcing them to be anemic and sustain themselves with nothing at all.

We have to pay to maintain the things we want.

> I really loved the previous design with the physical numpad

That's their MP02, different product line, which is pretty much just talk and text plus Signal ("Pigeon" on the MP02): https://www.punkt.ch/products/mp02-4g-minimalist-phone

I recommend the MP02, with one caveat: don't buy it right now. Because there have historically been problems with Pigeon, you really ought to use Signal for Desktop at the same time as Pigeon, in case Pigeon starts having problems. But as of now you can't you can't connect the two (though Signal for Desktop keeps working fine if you already have them synced).

I've found the call quality and reliability on the MP02 to be great after a year of use.

[Edited to add: MP02 doesn't require a subscription.]

ive been watching the developments of sidephone closely. ive long sought the perfect dumb-ish phone and they just dont exist, the sidephone isn't perfect either but if it delivers it could be much closer. there's pieces of it im not a fan of: closed source OS (for now) and no word on if there will at least be like SDK's to build out things for it.

the biggest leap forward in smart phones to me was personally in-hand GPS navigation. that was a game changer. I really _don't_ need to be even opening internet browsers for anything. T9 phone with a week of battery life, the ability to play some mp3's and GPS navigation and.. sigh I guess some way for me to issue MFA for okta/entraid/whatever since that's so ubiquitous with workplace security now... and I'd be set.

it's wild how advanced the likes of hardware companies were over a decade ago at making miniature hardware. the last generation ipod nano (7th I think?) was this tiny touch screen device and when I hold it in my hand today it feels ... actually magic. seriously it feels mind blowing, state of the art with how small and responsive it is. like that kind of miniaturization doesn't seem to exist anymore & it's something only the hardware giants at scale seemed to be able to do since they had supply chain connections and R&D warchests to blow on designing custom components. A lot of these dumb phones rely on generalist components I think and they aren't bankrolled with bajillions of dollars to get new R&D going and tooling online to really put an impressive device together, I just never see it in these "disconnect but stay just connected enough" dumb-phones that are trying to offer an exit from the noise of modern smart phones.

i'd absolutely cherish something that had the form of the nokia xpress music 5310 https://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/MOBILE/large/Nokia_5... with gps navigation, the ability to play music, and workplace MFA capability.

that's it, i've thought about it and i seriously don't need anything else. yeah whatsapp and spotify are super ubiquitous these days but they're literally not required to get in touch with me. and for spotify, i finally did do that whole "nerd mods an ipod 15 years later thing" and it taught me something that i needed to know about myself: ADHD + spotify = bad. my last decades playlists are a mess, i listen to music _less_ because it's just an onslaught of new stuff and access to everything. something about having a collection of music i actually took time to curate into playlists..i know what's in there i know what i can listen to. it's somewhere between meditative (which is good for me) and very intentional. acquiring new music is now also very intentional, getting it onto my device is intentional. its slower, less convenient, and somehow it makes me enjoy the music experience a lot more. im listening to more music now in a way that I haven't since I was sitting on a schoolbus next to my crush and sharing a headphone with her.

all in all I've seen a few of these "dumb phones, no distraction" device manufs now like punkt here start off with a cool design and eventually just cave and fold to some full screen touch design. to me that just nixes a lot of checkboxes for me: more screen = undoubtedly more distractions and ways to be connected, i miss buttons, i just... don't want a big phone. ever. i want to be intentional about my connectivity, and that means if i need the internet i need to just go hop on my computer. if im itching to know something and im standing in an elevator or standing on a subway, i actually don't want to be able to pull my phone out and have the immediacy of an answer. i want to stay bored in my head, work on the skill of "this is important i hope i come back to it lets index that thought and come back to it later", and just learn to live with being in my own head without the constant need to have an answer or scratch a dopamine itch immediately. there's something ive completely lost over the years, basically that ability to imagine spiderman swinging from the powerlines when i was a kid looking out the window of my parents car. whatever _that_ is, i think that came with a lot of core benefits for my brain activity that generally allowed me to have a more meaningful and happier life.

Yes to cancelling Spotify and intentionally creating playlists from your carefully curated music. Or just listening to good old albums.

Being able to be alone with our thoughts and let our mind wander and not having to pull out our phone is a good skill to practise.

But a phone with a map and gps is quite useful.

People really pay 300+ € for a phone; it’s crazy to me.

I still have some ancient (pre-smartphone) phones lying around, they work just fine and do the same thing. To be fair they don’t come with Signal but then again that doesn’t seem to work well. Only real argument would be the battery - but the last time I tested one of my old burner phones the battery still lasted for about 5 days (crazy right…)

To be fair, your old feature phones don’t do the same thing as a modern smart phone— you just aren’t interested in doing things they aren’t capable of. I have very different use cases.

None of my old phones works since the networks turned off 3G.

They should really just bake this into the price of the phone. Charge more up front and then offer “free” updates while also respecting users and their data.

What I don't get about this devices is the insane price tag. Seems absurd to pay just as much for these things as an Iphone.

Yeah, this is the opposite of being your device. This is pretending to own a device as a service.

I'm building a portable pbx on a raspberry pi with some power banks I stick in a backpack and a dual sim 5g unlimited internet hotspot, and switch over to starlink 5g when that happens. I'll throw a media server in there (pirate everything), and use a small portable wireless streaming touchscreen. There are all sorts of useful UI and linux tools that can make it a far better experience than android or phones. If I need a camera, I'll buy a camera. I've got earbuds and bluetooth for peripherals.

2026 is the year I leave "phones" behind - not playing the subscription device game anymore. I left Windows last year. I'll get better service, real control, and no enshittification treadmill.

It's too bad it takes an inordinate amount of tech savvy to break out - Linux is well beyond good enough for grandma or the average user at this point. There's no reason beyond exploitation for profit for the kafkaesque intrusion into people's lives and data. If you've got the capability, break out.

This product is not breaking free. Same walls, different garden.

So you walk around with a backpack instead of a smartphone? :o

Re: media server. Yeah. I wish there was an alternative but the modern media landscape is so broken there is no other way to maintain digital copies of your shows and movies, while maintaining your own ability to curate your ow content on a plane that isn’t just another surface for those companies to drive engagement metrics. If you try to escape, you are forced into drm locked down Blu rays or even just shit out of luck in the case of a lot of direct to streaming tv. In which case you have two options, stay on the enshittification treadmill, taking more and more shit from bigass corporations who are actively poisoning the culture, or sail the seas. Or I guess just don’t watch tv. But I like tv.

tell me more about this wireless touchscreen?

cosmic levels of spin doctoring , doesn't really give a good gut feeling , especially post anom/operation ironside