Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

here's a few good reasons why it's hard to make easy-to-use vendor-neutral FPGA tools:

- all the devices/bitstream formats are proprietary with little or no documentation of the logic blocks or programmable interconnect structures. it is probably technically easier to build a new FPGA from scratch and design tools for that, than to reverse engineer existing chips [1]

- there is very little cross-compatibility between vendor products (a 4-lut here, a 6-lut there, some carry-chain logic here, a DSP block there)

- all the optimizations (synthesis, place-and-route) are NP-hard problems

- sequential imperative (C-like) thinking is not the correct way to make parallel systems

- the FPGA vendors compete on tools and offer their software for free to push hardware. hard for an independent vendor to compete.

[1] some reverse engineering efforts exist. see "From the bitstream to the netlist" http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.117... / http://code.google.com/p/debit/



all the optimizations (synthesis, place-and-route) are NP-hard problems

I suspect this one in particular could be chipped away at pretty successfully if the tooling were less closed. When you get some open benchmarks and let both researchers and systems-builders hack away at it, you can get very good practical solutions to NP-hard problems, as the current crop of SAT-solvers, SMT engines, and TSP-routing tools attest.


I wrote an post 5 years ago about how an electronic-design-automation-as-a-service company could sell access to a huge supercomputer for solving these problems faster: http://fpgacomputing.blogspot.com/2008/08/megahard-corp-open...

most researchers make up their own architectures to demonstrate place-and-route algorithms, for example there is this challenge to improve p&r: http://www.eecg.toronto.edu/~vaughn/challenge/challenge.html


Commercial "vendor neutral" tools do exist, Synplicity was a public company which sold such tools for several years before branching into proto board hardware sales and then being acquired by Synopsys [1]. Their tools for synthesis, partitioning and debug are still available [2] and strong sellers to both Altera and Xilinx FPGA developers.

[1] http://news.synopsys.com/index.php?s=43&item=570 [2] http://www.synopsys.com/Tools/Implementation/FPGAImplementat...


While I find your comment informative, points 3 and 4 do not really explain why vendor-neutral tools cannot exist. Point 2 (my best understanding) should not be a breaking issue if documentation and specifications are available (which is covered by point 1). It seems to me that point 5 is part of the thing they have done to prevent alternative tools to come to market. Lastly, point 1 is exactly what begs for disruption.


The manufacturers also treat the exact implementation details of their FPGAs - how exactly all the routing fabric is structured, the fine details of some of the macros, etc - to be their secret sauce that gives them an edge over their competitors. So they're pretty hostile to the idea of documenting anything.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: