Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

"His team's survey found that 13.9 per cent of men [...] said they have never had sex."

"The study also found that male homosexuals were 11 times more likely to be virgins than heterosexuals"

So, I'm trying to find some plausible interpretation that would reconcile these two statements... anyone?

[Edit: I don't just mean what would cause gay people to be virgins... I mean how can these figures both be true?]



You're right. There is something fishy.

The 13.9 per cent of men would include homosexuals. Let's say there are 1000 men, 5 percent of which are homosexuals.

So 950 straight men, 50 homosexuals and 139 virgins between them.

950 * x + 50 * y = 139, where x is the straight virginity rate. y is the homosexual virginity rate, and y = 11 * x.

So 950 * x + 50 * (11 * x) = 139 950x + 550x = 139 1500x = 139 x = 0.0926

9.26 percent of straight men are virgins, 101.9% of gay men are.

If homosexual men make up 10% of the population 900x + 1100x = 139 x = 0.07 76% of gay men are virgins.

If homosexual men are 20% of the population 800x * 2200x = 139 x = 0.046 51% of gay men are virgins. Less than 5% of straight men are.

The first situation is impossible. I guess 10% homosexual one might be plausible if they very narrowly defined losing one's virginity to having had anal intercourse. A lot of gay men exclusively have oral sex.


Wolfram is real useful for this sort of thing, by the way; here are your three calculations with:

A = P(gay), B = P(virgin | gay), C = P(virgin | not gay)

If 5% are gay: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=A+*+B+%2B+%281+-+A%29+*...

If 10% are gay: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=A+*+B+%2B+%281+-+A%29+*...

If 20% are gay: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=A+*+B+%2B+%281+-+A%29+*...


I was wondering if Wolfram's logs would show a bunch of queries for P(gay), P(virgin | gay), and P(virgin | not gay), then realized you'd given them variables. More's the pity. I'd love to see the face of the employee that sees a bunch of queries for P(virgin | gay).


I have a friend who is an epidemiology research for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. He says that the best evidence is that the percentage of gay men is considerably less than the often-said 10 percent of the population (derived from Kinsey's unscientific survey), so a small percentage of gay men in your calculation would be the most plausible. This depends crucially on the definition of "gay," but for most epidemiologically relevant purposes, an estimate nearer to 2 percent seems warranted by scientific surveys.


Have you got any links to these surveys other than your friend? I would be really interested to know the incidence. The actual number is ludicrously hard to pin down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientat...

The biggest problem is that nobody really agrees with what a "gay man" is for the purposes of counting them anyway. Does just one homosexual experience count? What about if (as this survey suggests is common) you have a lifetime of clear homosexual thoughts but no opportunity to act on them? What if you're any of the infinite variations of bisexuality between completely homosexual and completely heterosexual?

I tend to work with 4%-8%, depending on definition, but I'll be the first to admit it's a total shot in the dark.


I wish I could help with more authoritative data. Thanks for asking, but I cannot. All I know is that the 10 percent figure comes from Kinsey, but Kinsey's anecdotal reports were not scientifically gathered by means that would ensure that the percentage is representative. I could agree with the whole range you think is plausible, not being able to point to definitive figures.


13.9% of men includes all age groups. It's probably something like 50% of 18-22 men, and a much smaller number (e.g. 0.5-1% or so) of 35-45 men.

I'm guessing that perhaps 5.5-11% of male homosexuals are virgins?

That seems strange, however, considering that it's vastly easier for gay guys to get laid than for straight guys. (I'm basing this last statement on common sense and my own experience; I've been approached by strange men offering sex, but never by women I've never met.)


I've been approached by strange men offering sex...

Well, what do you expect with a name like yummyfajitas?


I bet there are a number of devoutly religious, non-practicing homosexuals.


"Self-hating" gays too; who are uncomfortable with themselves.

Heterosexuals have an easy time since their sexual identity is sanctioned by society. Gays go through their youths being forced to be something they are not. For some, even when they become comfortable in their own identities in private, it's still impossible for them to confess to them socially.

All the more reasons to encourage gay-friendly communities in town and cities, somewhere they can be themselves.


The study did not include young, it is was an age group of 25-45. And I would think that past the age of 25 the marginal increase in chances for having sex for the first time is significantly lower then before.


50%? That seems ridiculously high compared to my (incomplete knowledge, sample size of one) experience, and I live in the Bay Area...


It just means that the virgin group has a higher percentage of homosexuals than the non-virgin group.


No, it says gays are (vastly) more likely to be virgins, not just that virgins are more likely to be gay.


Fear of HIV transmission

Limited sexual network in small towns

closeted yet no desire for heterosexual intercourse


Fear of violence!

Straight people don't know the fear, oppression and loneliness gay people might face in small towns.

We all have this image of wild, cruising gay guys and girls, when in fact, a huge percentage of them live under the laws, both written and unwritten, of despotic communities.

Even in big cities, unattractive gay people might be alienated by potential partners.


I doubt the second is really as much of a factor. While ugly straight men have difficulty due to the "winner take all" aspects of the male/female sex market, I can't see how gays would have a similar problem.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: