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On the other hand, if you want to play games on your network you absolutely must have UPNP. Unless the game has a dedicated server infrastructure. But even then you risk higher latency on VOIP if it even works at all.


This is completely false. Almost all home networks use port-restricted NAT, which allows for STUN for NAT traversal. You do not need UPnP to play games, even those that have peer to peer multiplayer.

Also STUN for VOIP does not increase latency. It tells you your external IP and port.

Edit: Port symmetric —> port restricted


I get the feeling you’ve never ran n>1 Xbox Ones connecting to Xbox Live at the same time. Without UPnP only one will be able to connect.


So is this issue mostly with consoles? I've always kept UPnP off and we do lots of gaming here without a problem, but pretty much all PC gaming.


PC also has problems. Truth be told it’s all about the kinds of games you play.

You can port forward of course, but you have to know which ports and obviously it only goes to one static IP


I can't say for sure, but I have never ever seen a PC game using UPnP. That said, I have only ever seen it once with a console, a PS3 in this case.

And, don't quote me on this, but most PC games are not Peer-To-Peer. They often come with their own server software.


Yeah, which pretty much requires you to do manual port forwarding. And if you're behind a CGNAT, you can't host.


I have and I manually manage my firewall. I have never seen a game that only uses/allows one port so IMO it would only become a problem with something like 10+ consoles playing the same game at the same time and all of them being a host. If even then.


Do you mean TURN? STUN does not work over Symmetric NAT as the source port is unpredictable.


I'm gaming on my Xbox right now with specific ports forwarded. I guess "absolutely must" is a bit much, huh? UPNP has no place in a secure network.


This is not a reasonable solution for most people, it requires intimate knowledge of the games you play (which ports they use), a static IP for your console and no more than one player/console per household.

Heaven forbid you have a PC game and a Xbox game that have conflicting ports.

And, I just have to say: you open arbitrary ports to your game console from the internet and talk about security.


Well, NAT itself has pretty much no place on a network these days, so the point is kind of moot...


n>1, not n=1.


If you want to host servers on your network then you need firewall rules, but if you are just a client then the firewalls implicitly allow the responses to client traffic through.


Only if it’s dedicated server infrastructure (as mentioned) games like call of duty will not work.




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