There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool. I find myself enjoying music significantly less now I have unlimited access to everything I could ever want. It’s become disposable; just background noise rather than something I’m actively experiencing.
There is also a part of me that wants to take those albums and keep them on an old click-wheel iPod. I always thought the early iPod nanos were among the best consumer hardware devices ever made. Just the right mix of boxy and round; small enough to be novel (at least at the time), but large enough to still be perfectly usable. Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a charge and isn’t battered to all hell is quite difficult these days, and even so, it’s much harder to justify a single use device for music when I literally always have my phone with me.
As someone who was a teen when the iPod really started taking off, it was a constant presence during the time music was starting to become an important part of my life. Sad to see it go, even though really it’s been gone since the iPhone launched.
I think this is actually a pretty real concern. I've noticed my appreciation for specific instances of all sorts of media has tanked with wide availability.
I actually used to buy a lot of media so I hit this problem before streaming. As soon as I had a backlog big enough with each type of media that it wasn't straightforward to burn through it, it became a cloud of equally possible stuff with the result I wasn't particularly invested in any of it. Most people were smarter than me re: dumping money into bits on a disc, but now that streaming and/or free-feed libraries have hit most media types, I think the experience is becoming more common.
I think it's a different version of Paradox of Choice: all individualization between the various choices is lost when there's too many. With PoC, the problem is that then you have nothing left by which you can prioritize. In this case, the issue is the loss of all joy you'd have found in the differences.
What's helped a little for me is going on "kicks," like finding all the bands I liked that did EDM-metal hybrid, or all the found footage movies I liked, etc. Constraining the pool you're selecting from first makes it easier, and having a mission of some kind makes it easier still.
Child of the 90s here and my parents wouldn’t get cable TV.
This meant my access to movies was basically whatever was on broadcast TV that night or if I was really lucky whatever was available at our local video rental store.
I remember not always loving whatever movie we chose (or whatever was on TV) but I watched it because it’s what I had.
Now, like many others, I stare at the home screen of a few different services each night, start and stop a few different things, then give up.
Personally I think that has more to do with what movie offerings there are today vs 20 years ago. I could absolutely care less about the latest comic book movie but that seems to be where movie studios have put all their effort.
On the other hand, TV series have never been better - we seem to be in some kind of golden age where you can find tons of high quality well acted series on every streaming service. There was a bit of a lull (for me) during Covid, but my backlog is completely full through the next year.
The consolidation of movie studios (mostly into Disney lately...) hasn't been helping either. There used to be plenty of small studios that would do "weird" stuff - it wasn't going to be a huge commercial success, but it would probably make back the modest budget it had.
There's always older films to watch. I'm at a point where I'd far rather put the time into something older, with solid actors, than watch the latest and greatest mostly-CG special effects laden [whatever]. That most of those movies are unwatchable unless you're "deep into the fandom" doesn't encourage me to invest in them either. And if it's not those, it's the "How can we prequel all the popular things," even when it makes no sense at all. To yell at a cloud briefly, Han Solo doesn't need a prequel. He's a standard drifter archetype, and to nail his past down doesn't do the character any service at all.
> greatest mostly-CG special effects laden [whatever]
There was some threshold that was crossed probably close to a decade ago for me where CG effects stopped being interesting in any way, but watching older movies with their incredible special effects and stuntmen really does look impressive to me. There is no CG in the world that compares to the immersion in Apocalypse Now, for example.
I do think there are many ways to use CG to subtly support the impact of a scene driven by characters, but when the scene itself is driven by the CG (in ways that are unrealistic for actors or stuntmen to perform) it just feels like a lazy way to progress a storyline.
Mad Max Fury Road stands out for their general lack of CG - and it shows in the movie. The thing is filled with practical effects, and it just looks right as a result. They don't have to simulate the physics of someone swinging around attached to the end of a fiberglass pole when they... just attached someone to the end of a fiberglass pole. The dirtbike trajectories look right, because... they filmed dirtbikes jumping the convoy. The flamethrowing guitar on top of the truck filled with speakers is exactly that. Etc.
Yes, there's some CG for the flame effects and such, but the bulk of it is just practical effects - and when you watch it, the movie stands out because of them. Everything they're doing can be done - as proven by the fact that they did it. Is it insane madness in the desert? Yes, but they filmed insane madness in the desert.
I started getting annoyed at CG heavily around the Star Wars Prequel days - when you've got movies in which the plot serves the tech demo, not the other way around. That's not a style of storytelling I enjoy, and more and more it seems to be the style used.
There are actually around 2,000 VFX shots in the film, but I think they really nailed the mix between practical and VFX in a way that makes the sum of the parts greater.
You mean you absolutely could not care less. (And neither could I.)
I agree though, fortunately I'm someone who doesn't mind rewatching old films I like, and also there are surely many greats I've yet to see. Television is not all hits, but there seem to be many more than in film, and then once you have one that's firstly and most simply more hours of entertainment; secondly it's a virtuous circle having more time for character and plot development etc.
Surely you're joking, right?
I've never encountered those two phrases where they meant the same thing.
Couldn't care less - absolute zero care. Nothing can disappoint me whatever happen.
Could care less - some degree of care is present. Thing can actually get worse
"Could care less" is an idiom, derived from a sarcastic acknowledgement that you haven't quite reached the theoretical minimum, absolute-0 of caring. "Well, I suppose I could care less..."
I agree on the start-stop thing. You need to stop doing that :) I used to get DVDs through the post from LoveFilm and would nearly always watch the movies through to the end, even if they didn't seem great in the first 20 mins. Often I would be glad I stuck with it as many movies are a "slow burn". With streaming there is a constant nagging doubt that I'm missing out on something better and should jump ship if a movie/show doesn't grab me immediately. One way out of this is to force yourself to stick with your choice or do something else (like read a book!) ... that works for me.
Never been a social guy, but I found enjoyable a short talk with the guy at the counter.
He gave me his opinion on the tape I was about to checkout and made suggestions about the new acquisitions. I guess after some weeks he knew my tastes and give a human-curated list, hehehe. They mostly tend to by nerdy, so we made a good fit, but they curated the list to old ladies, families and so...
A miss here and there, but I always found something enjoyable in all tapes. Even in the low budget, low quality ones.
This is such a large problem that it's a cultural meme that nobody can decide what to watch on Netflix, or what music to listen to on Spotify, or what game to play from their Steam library.
There's just too much of everything. There are too many musicians, movies, and games that friends, family, and the recommendation algorithms all swear I absolutely must experience before I can call my life complete.
Another take: too many posts on HN about languages, algorithms, start-ups, fund-raising, etc, etc. I'm here because I like to read through lots of that stuff! But it has also made admire it all, maybe a little too much.
As I'm in the late stage process of potentially joining a start-up, I am doing so much what-if and what-about-that analysis and it is completely paralyzing my decision process! But it reminded me that I was once a 20-year-old sophomore in college that created a business plan with a friend for a start-up without once wondering what else might be out there. Times have changed.
I clearly remember feeling this fatigue already 20 years ago when piracy became super easy and i went from the teenage paradigm of buying one album, say, a month, and learning the ins and outs of it for that month, to having more in my hard drive than i could chew on. I remember thinking oh back in the day it was easier to love music!
I have since learned to stop being nostalgic about the scarcity and instead trying to be more, um, mindful of my consumption. Genre rabbit holes are great. Live music is too. I avoid the recommender algorithms as much as i can instead going for albums or curated compilations - much prefer YouTube to Spotify for this. When people let the algorithm play, I can clearly hear the lack of intentionality and it bothers me immensely.
Remember that we have unlimited access to super-hero and algorithmically scripted movies. I had more options in my VHS rental stores than in current streaming offerings. It is very hard to find classic movies of non anglo-american directors. I had access to these movies in my third world big city rental store.
I've kept all my old records, hard drives full of mp3s, and even cassette tapes knowing that this era was coming.
Twitter trends and YouTube as well is full of music on rails, polished pop stars that are working to spin their unremarkable music into an acting career, and it generates underwhelming results for music.
It's the very reason why device makers are getting rid of headphone jacks, and why storage is kept low, even on new on phones, and other devices. Soon we'll only have streaming as a choice, we won't be able to maintain a music collection any more for various reasons like HD/SSD failure, and mysteriously, making deeper choices will be more expensive, even though the artists don't get paid until they give in to the commercial song playlist machine.
There is literally volumes of the absolute best music being made on YouTube, but it never sees the light of day... I have to regularly go through hurdles to find it in places where artists themselves share it, and it's depressing to see them with only 50 views in many cases, completely ignored by algos.
I say this as someone who has run an underground music label for years now, the job of being a successfully creative and different artist is becoming impossible fast, and as a result, the process of finding music based on real talent is fading with it.
Hang onto your vinyl and hope your legacy devices don't get worn out, or enjoy non stop billboard top 10 on an infinite loop (Or Metallica's unforgiven again... on the radio... on infinite loop... after those 10 liberty mutual commercials). :/
> There is literally volumes of the absolute best music being made on YouTube, but it never sees the light of day... I have to regularly go through hurdles to find it in places where artists themselves share it, and it's depressing to see them with only 50 views in many cases, completely ignored by algos.
This is my experience too. And I think "algos" are doing music-lovers a disservice…
Technology has the potential to democratise music making. You can produce music on any computer. If you make electronic music you need nothing else. If you play physical instruments you need a bit, but not much more, gear to get the sound into the computer to produce tracks which you can publish online.
So, if you want to make music, you can – no one can stop you! And you can put it online and anyone can access it, in theory, but making it discoverable by an audience is a completely different matter.
The streaming services do not need new and innovative music made with passion by god and everybody. They need the old hits, which people look for, and small amount of "new hits" to push on people to make everything feel fresh.
I want to say that there could be a different streaming service, which better serves the audience and makers, but I am not sure exactly what that means.
> There is literally volumes of the absolute best music being made on YouTube, but it never sees the light of day...
For many (most?) people, the most important role of music is participating in a shared culture. You want to be able to sing along with the same songs as your friends, to get the references made in conversation, to share moments together with a soundtrack in the background.
To the extent there is absolute quality for music, it is secondary to what people want. The thing where most everyone in a group listens to the same stuff on repeat is an important feature of the process.
If you go back to the 70s and 80s which, I'd argue, were peak decades for the sheer volume of music talent there was a social dimension which died with web 2.0 and that was shared music culture provided by radio and TV. In the UK programmes such as Top Of The Pops, The Old Grey Whistle Test, The Tube, the John Peel Show were part of this shared culture which was the backdrop of everyone's social life. Youtube and Spotify wiped this out.
For me the discovery functionality of Spotify and 3rd party discovery tools work perfectly. I keep discovering new music, the algorithm has learned my tastes pretty well, yet there are still tools if I want to go beyond that.
just some examples, in Asia put your MV on YouTube is a very basically way to publish it. people who use this way from personal singers to K-pop companies.
At least on Spotify, ‘the algo’ has put me on artists that have less than a thousand monthly listeners. I don’t know how much more obscure you want it..
There's a middle ground, too -- you can host music streaming for your own library through [Jellyfin](https://jellyfin.org/) (or Plex, or a few other alternatives) for the backend and something like [FinAmp](https://github.com/UnicornsOnLSD/finamp) on the frontend. Easy to curate your own library, and you can avoid the "sync problem" when you download a new album.
There are some bugs to iron out in the setup, but my raspberry pi home server has been running this great for 5 months now, and offline media served me very well through a cross-country move. It's a great opportunity to take back some agency from Spotify, start contributing to artists on bandcamp or similar, and cut another annoying monthly subscription from your life.
When someone hands me their phone to play music on Spotify at this point, I find the front page absolutely overwhelming. It's sort of like going back to cable after streaming for years, and seeing your first ad. You wonder how you ever put up with it.
I've been frustrated with Spotify's UI for so long now. It just seems so full of dark... or at least dim(?) user patterns. I started buying albums from bands I like off Bandcamp and loading them into Plexamp. (I really hope Epic doesn't destroy Bandcamp, it's one of the few remaining sources of high-quality (FLAC) downloadable music.)
Bandcamp is great; the only marketplace I have found with fair and reasonable terms for both producers and consumers of music. I never buy music anywhere else these days and am rather worried about Epic Games' acquisition.
I do the same thing, and recommend this setup to any music fan comfortable setting up a Plex server.
I share your concern that Epic will ruin Bandcamp, but part of me wonders if that wouldn't be a good thing in the long run. I don't think Bandcamp tried to monopolize digital file sales for independent music, but they kind of have, and that's bad.
I'd love to see a good open source music store pop up that labels and bands could easily self-host. You could probably build all the core Bandcamp features into a WordPress plugin in a weekend.
Similar feelings here. I switched from Spotify a month or two before Epic bought bandcamp, and I’m very nervous about the platform going forward. They kind of suck for mass downloads (they throttle you very quickly), so be warned before you buy a ton of albums through them. But at the same time… Bandcamp feels so much less scummy than Spotify that I’m happy to throw them Spotify subscription money every month.
I do something similar with the subsonic protocol by locally hosting Airsonic[0] and listening with Strawberry Player[1] on Desktop and iSub[2] on iOS. Using Tailscale[3], I'm able to stream my library on the go. Best part is that all this infra is free and pretty hands-off maintenance-wise.
I do the same, though I recently switched from subsonic to navidrome.
My home music server has my wife and I’s mp3 collection that we’ve been building since like 2000. However, I’m continuously buying new music on bandcamp and scouring music blogs, and the collection grew until she was overwhelmed by the selection. So then I took her old click-wheel ipod music collection (which broke, but she had the music backed up), and I put that on a USB which is plugged into our Yamaha Musiccast receiver. The interface is pretty simple in the musiccast app (scroll and choose). She’s happy to have her collection locked to like 2012 in an ipod-like fashion.
But she still misses that ipod. The screen started fading, and I took it apart to replace parts, and in the process I screwed up the battery. It only works when docked and dies immediately when undocked.
Nice breakdown! I use wireguard myself, but several friends keep trying to convert me to Tailscale. I’m strongly of the opinion that WG is working, so I’ll just let it keep working. But if I had to set up a VPN from scratch, Tailscale is awfully tempting.
Honestly, the only reason I use Tailscale is bc the set-up was easier than WG and the subnet router is handy (though not essential)[0].
I'd just be using WG if I figured out how to set it up the first time ahaha. It's nice to get rid of third-parties whenever possible, especially when it comes to my personal IT infrastructure.
Been using iTunes Match for years and it’s great. I have a load of stuff in my library which was either never released digitally (eg em:t) or was deleted (eg The KLF). Oink.
I have been using iTunes Match for years and now use Apple Music. I love it, especially the integration. Combine that with CarPlay and the audio entertainment options really open up.
Question to stuartd: I am concerned about how long Apple will support iTunes Match. Have you thought about what you would switch to in order to stream your Apple Music/iTunes when or if Apple sunsets iTunes Match as a service?
My suspicion is that they're not going to get rid of that functionality -- it continues to be a differentiator between them and Spotify. And, assuming that's right, they don't have any particular pressure to get rid of the standalone iTunes Match service. I know there's the argument that they might get rid of the $25/yr service in order to force people onto the $99/yr service. But it seems quite likely to me that Apple figures anyone still paying for iTunes Match but not Apple Music just doesn't want Apple Music, which makes the consideration in Apple's accounting department not "$99 > $25" but "$25 > $0".
Having said that, in the really early days it (or my phone, an iPhone 4 and later a 6S) was a terrible experience a lot of the time. Even with good Wi-Fi I’d wait for songs to play and then they would probably still stutter. It’s seamless now though, as long as I have a decent mobile signal.
This is interesting. Considering most of our Home internet connection have upload bandwidth far greater than music streaming. A consumer, simple and easy to use devices for this.
Steve Jobs was against the whole Streaming Music services idea. At the time I would have thought the next move for iTunes would be to have free Streaming of songs you have purchased. Which is somewhat similar to this idea.
The other middle ground, between self hosting and streaming if you will, is to connect your music library to a streaming service like https://asti.ga/ .
I guess this is effectively outsourcing the self hosting bit. You can connect to locally stored music files via WebDAV or just upload your collection to any of the big cloud storage providers.
I've been a Plex user for years. I started playing around with Jellyfin this week and I think I'll probably use both for a while since they can share the same library.
Plexamp has been great for music. I can put on any CD I own, in FLAC quality, without having to go locate the physical disc. I've spent much of pandemic filing in holes in the back catalog of my favorite artists.
If I want a mix, I tend to open up Tidal and let it build a "radio station" based on my mood.
Also a plex user for music and have also played with Jellyfin. My impression is that in a couple years Jellyfin will be the go to but that it isn't quite up to snuff with Plex yet (especially wrt music) though some projects like JellyAmp are changing that.
Navidrome is far and away the best self hosted streaming music server. I set up half a dozen and wasn't happy until I tried that one. The developer is very friendly and responsive too.
I have always loved music and still do. I think what you describe has in part been due to scarcity. But in part it has to do with growing up. As a teenager you are often bored out of your whole mind and so have time to focus on music. You also listen to the lyrics and the ideas presented are brand new and meaningful. Later in life you are less likely to find truly novel albums, or even songs; maybe a phrase here and there but a record is less likely to capture your imagination.
Here is my solution to enjoying music: treat it as a soundtrack to your life. Create themed playlists. Spotify has collaborative playlists built in and I have a couple of friends who are or were professional DJs. I will start a playlist and then have them add things to it based on the theme and feeling. This process has gotten better and better. I now enjoy high quality music that I love while also discovering new artists and records.
I'm in my 50s and I still listen to new music that moves me to both excitement and tears. I don't use streaming services and just maintain my own library and always have. Many of the bands I listen to have members older than I am, but they are still actively making new music.
I'm also in my 50s and was doing just what you do, then tediously went through hundreds of CDs and then tons of legit iTunes purchases to track what music i liked, and then converted to using Spotify, which has been excellent, though with a UI somewhat clunky, though nowhere as annoying as Apple Music the times i've tried using it.
This is me as well and is the primary reason I still buy albums on vinyl. I'm not an audiophile snob or anything, I just think that listening to music on vinyl is deliberate enough to overcome the "disposable" issue that you're describing. If I want to listen to an album, I have to go to the room in my house with the turntable, open the album, put it on, set the tone arm, etc. It's very deliberate and it helps me appreciate and dedicate time to music.
I forget where I was reading/listening to it (may well have been a podcast), but I recall someone talking about printing out tiny artwork for NFC tags and configuring them in such a way that scanning them played the one album printed on it. I thought that was super neat—still got the convenience of digital music, but it is still a deliberate action as you describe.
I've also turned to vinyl for this, and while I love it, I will say I yearn for something that doesn't involve the dreaded 'flip' especially on modern double albums. 3 songs per side goes by so fast. Maybe this is why people still use cassettes?
Not cassettes but a dedicated CD player is what I use for this stuff.
I have certain custom mixtape style mood music CDs depending on how the scene in my novel is supposed to feel tonally, for example.
Yes I could make those into YouTube playlists, but the ritual of putting in the right CD has something to say for it, and also my CDs never have advertisements that manage to sneak past all of my layers of adblock, nor do they suddenly decide to be unavailable on one particular day or another.
I remember when I added a CD player to my audio setup a couple of years ago—which previously just had a radio tuner, vinyl turntable and a cassette deck. I kept my old CDs and my partner has even more. I had gotten used to the OK sound quality of vinyl, cassette and FM radio (or youtube on my computer speakers). So when I put the CD in and played it I was amazed how good it sounds, I simply had forgotten how good CD can sound with a good audio setup.
I still play records though, simply because it is more fun, but if I want quality I play CDs.
I bought a Vinyl player (AT-LP60XBT) but rarely use it because I feel like I can't tell a difference between it and Spotify through my speakers (Edifier S350DB). Only difference seems to be it's more inconvenient.
It feels like the inconvenience is what people _like_ about vinyl? But maybe my setup just isn't good enough to tell a difference?
Kinda. It's not that we like the inconvenience. We like that it's something that you have to commit to doing. You can't really go for a run or a drive or work on things. You're sitting down just to listen to music and, while you can do that with digital media too, it's much more deliberate with physical media.
>>> Only difference seems to be it's more inconvenient.
This is where we differ. For me that is not an inconvenience but part of the experience. I enjoy picking a record to play, removing it from the cover, checking it for dust or dirt, and putting it on the turntable. Probably mostly for nostalgic reasons.
My thoughts exactly. That's one of the big advantages that vinyl comes with, for me personally.
This and that I'm very deliberate about keeping track of new music I want to listen to (my queue). EDIT: There was a tool posted here on Show HN a few days ago that seemed interesting for this sort of stuff but I can't seem to find it now.
As a counterpoint, I enjoy music more now. Music discovery is light years ahead of where it was in the iPod era. There's no additional cost to exploring as many artists and genres as you want. Also, streaming services are doing nothing to prevent you from listening to music the old way. Yeah, Spotify has a huge library, but it's not like the whole thing is on shuffle. If you find you're not spending the time to enjoy specific things, that's ultimately your problem.
I do get where you're coming from, I'm very nostalgic for my old click-wheel iPod. Probably the biggest downside in moving away from physical media in my mind is the loss of the rest of the album art.
> There's no additional cost to exploring as many artists and genres as you want.
Not that I want music discovery to cost more, but I do think a consequence can be that it’s also easier to not discover music you might otherwise have. If I buy an album, and it doesn’t immediately capture me, I have N-1 other tracks waiting to change my mind. And I’m invested in that possibility. Endless discovery possibilities gives me an incentive to move on to another artist. Sure, I might like that other artist too. But pretty much all of my now-favorite artists were a pass before they grew on me.
I’m not saying that’s the attitude everyone should have, or that others wouldn’t or even ought to explore this way. Just sharing my own perspective for whatever it’s worth.
On the other hand, coming to love pretty much all of my now-favorite artists wasn’t a waste of time.
And this isn’t like a chore I’ve set out to get musically enriched. It’s just “oh yeah, I have that album! I didn’t like it last time but I’m in the mood to have another listen.” Some of these have been years between and sudden discoveries that I had buried my own treasures.
It I’ve ever felt like trying to appreciate an album was a chore but one I wanted to pursue anyway, it was Radiohead’s Amnesiac. I loved the band already but felt put off by the work at first. Even then, I put it away, came back later and fell in love on whichever was the next fresh listen.
But several of my favorite artists, I literally had no interest in at all at first. Then they just caught me in the right moment and the right emotional space. Some of these albums date back to the first I bought, around 13ish(?) and have been favorites for well over 20 years.
Again I don’t think everyone should experience music this way. It’s just my experience. My only point in sharing it, besides sharing a bit of my own joy, is to welcome other people who do find it appealing to either pursue it or feel less oddball for it.
You’re welcome to enjoy listening and discovering music however you see fit. I’m glad you like what you like! This isn’t a conflict or at least it shouldn’t be.
Edit: I also want to be clear, my investment in revisiting music I'd panned wasn’t monetary at all. I have hundreds of CDs I listened to once or twice and tossed in a binder, ignored ever since. My investment is “something about this work felt interesting to me; it still does, even if I’m not ready for it now; I want to revisit it again, and having some artifact [whether it’s a physical album or even just a download] leaves me something to re-discover.”
Right, I totally get this point, I'm not trying to be dismissive. I've had similar experiences. I'm just saying I've also bought something and felt guilty for not enjoying it, and spent time trying and failing to get into it.
Welp, devotion plays the largest role when it comes to enjoying something, and paying for an album already means the person is already devoted into it. Devotion allows juicing out more fun from the same item.
Modding old iPods to have them run flash memory and decent batteries is pretty common, you could look into that. I'm still using my 17 years old iPod 5G like this. Flashed with Rockbox it reads every file format (mostly FLAC) I could ever want.
One of my favourite teachers at school noted this phenomenon long before streaming was a thing. He said that once he got a favourite film on DVD he actually watched it less. Whereas before he would watch it whenever it was on TV, he can now watch it whenever he wants, so why watch it ever?
I've noticed a related phenomenon: too much choice induces anxiety. If there are like 5 films showing in the cinema it's usually obvious which one to pick. Maybe I'll watch another later in the week. But now I can watch any film ever made and I often find it hard to choose because there is a fear of missing out on all the other films I could have chosen.
I have discovered so many (good) bands via Spotify over the past 5 years it's honestly insane. If I had stuck to "guessing" at what I might like, I would not have had such a rich collection of new music from relatively unknown or foreign artists. It's also allowed me to sample so many varieties of genres without any direct monetary involvement. I wouldn't trade it for the world honestly.
I also support the artists I listen to by buying merch/going to concerts to supplement the pittance they get from streaming royalties.
I’ve abandoned streaming because you never own the music and they remove artists and albums or don’t carry some versions that I like. Youtube music and hype machine serve me well when i just want to hear something new, but otherwise I’ve been back to building my own music file library and using a media server to access it anywhere
It’s not quite the tangible feel of the ipod you describe but I find a great joy in my library being mine and not having any social or promotional features (« hot albums this week » etc.), i know what is in there and what comes in and goes out. The UI is utilitarian and not trying to drive engagement or generate revenue from me, I love it.
I've never moved to streaming; I still just load songs onto my phone. I don't feel like I'm really missing out on anything. I buy things on CD (often used) or vinyl-with-download-code or Bandcamp mostly.
Same camp here, with the exception of soundcloud - it has such a variety of user-generated content, as well as longer sets (multi-hour mixes, DJ sets, other long-form content) that you just can't find on other platforms.
The biggest benefit for me is finding new music, Spotify's discover feature is how I find most new music these days and it's decently accurate at finding things I like.
To be a counter-anecdote: I love streaming music, I listen to far more and far wider variety than I did more. I can definitely see why that'd be a downside for some, but I love it.
My only real complaint is that nothing wants to work together, so migrating services / backing up playlists / etc is a real nightmare. But I never actually maintained that in any real fashion to begin with, so I do the ones I care about by hand and ignore the rest and I've become fine with that.
That’s exactly what I do. Having all the music is essentially the same as having none of the music. I buy an album a month, usually (plus more on my birthday and at Christmas), and have my iPhone set up so that the music is the 32M of least-played music, plus anything rated 3 stars that I’ve not heard in two years, 4 stars that I’ve not heard in a year and 5 stars that I’ve not heard in six months. It gives me a nice mix of fresh tracks and favorites.
Part of what you described is due to streaming, but it’s also the production side making music available for this type of consumption. That’s been a long time in the making as labels consolidate and big artists become sex symbols, actors, and basically lifestyle influencers while singing generically machine-crafted music that has no lasting potential. Moreover, TikTok is becoming a recruiting ground for record labels. My guess is singles are going to get shorter and even more ephemeral, just like all the “culture” streaming into our phone screens. So what you’re describing to me is an extension of fatigue with a trend that doesn’t try to make things to last.
Having physical media or something that is individual to the music makes me respect my collection and helps bring it to life. I can’t stream from a big service because it ruins the feeling. I don’t really listen to much music on my phone either unless I’m in the car. I like it that way. It feels defiant that I’m not just randomly bombarding my ears with whatever cool new trash is being forced into my ears.
the tendency of artists “becoming sex symbols, actors, and basically lifestyle influencers while singing generically machine-crafted music” if not basically being the case for the entire history of recorded music, at least predates streaming by many decades. it’s also not exclusive to music and has a long history in basically every artistic industry.
Absolutely. But now more than ever it's about the brand, and not the individual. But I think this primarily applies to mainstream music where the artist is likely to have a few hits over a couple years, only to fade out (unless they can build the brand). Go outside mainstream music, and chances are that you'll see something completely different.
yeah I agree that it's a phenomenon, I just don't think it arose recently because of streaming. if anything, streaming makes it easier to access artists' back catalogs. not sure the degree to which this increases the longevity of mainstream pop artists, but I don't see any obvious way that it contributes to the "problem".
Sony still makes digital Walkmans. Pretty much an updated Nano, some of them even have clickwheel-like interfaces. I have one, it served me well until I just broke down and bought lightning headphones to listen to Spotify with on my phone. Once I replace my phone with either a Librem 5 or a LineageOS device, I can go back to using my music library.
I think that I solved this problem, I did it through self-discipline, categorically avoiding any recommendation system on any platform I use. I only ever listen to music that was either on one of my playlists, or on a playlist that a friend shared with me, etc.
Music that is part of my own playlists is there because I discovered it organically (was in a movie I watched, heard on the radio etc.) which is the same as you would discover it pre-streaming.
Songs and playlists that friends share with me is the equivalent of old cassettes that friends would make for you.
I do the same thing outside of music streaming too, there are browser extensions like Undistracted that can help avoiding recommendation systems (but unfortunately Undistracted doesn't work on Spotify).
I want to abandon streaming too, but because the service is sh*t, unreliable, non-friendly.
The self curated playlist idea on a nice dedicated device is also very attractive, not least because I still do that on streaming, pity that its support is an Nth tier for the providers behind 'intelligent' and 'AI' and 'just for you' bullsh*t pushed into my face, dealing with own lists is very often a struggle or even an uphill battle.
Yes, I should pick up the old habits too and pay attention more to 'own mix albums', elevating the experience.
> There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool.
I highly encourage giving it a try if you’re inclined. I personally never took to streaming services, largely for the reasons you express.
For me it’s mostly because I dislike shuffle, and prefer listing to full albums. Not a hipster snobby thing, it just fits my attention span better and has led to several artists becoming favorites when I’d felt pretty meh about their singles.
I'm dumbfounded by this move by Apple as the iPod was one of the innovations which kicked Apple into the big league. There is also a large population of users who, for over a decade, have been using an iPod without a Mac or an iPhone and who rely on iTunes for Windows to manage their music. Not everyone can afford nearly £1000 for an iPhone, especially if the main reason is to provide continuity for their now deceased iPod experience. Then again Apple never gave a damn about obsolescence. When Big Sur was released I learned that my early 2013 MacBook Pro wasn't compatible yet only this week I was able to download a simple fix from OpenCore which enabled to me load Monterey and have it working perfectly. If one guy could pull this off why couldn't Apple with their resources? Truth is they wanted to make my MacBook Pro incompatible - by mere designation - just like they resisted the right to repair until forced to play ball. If Apple respected their loyal base of iPod users they could at least continue to produce replacement iPod batteries. That would be a minimal good-will gesture.
Streaming is just a medium. How you curate and listen is the message. I might be a bit older than average here but I converted to iPod on first generation and I’m on the streaming bandwagon now but I never got into the habit of shuffling. I listen to albums, track by track in order. Always have regardless of the tech I was using and don’t feel like I’ve missed much. Actually I’ve gained a bit because I can branch out pretty wide from my core stuff and I can put on a playlist for ease when I just want background noise. Also, I remember the feeling of buying an album out of pure curiosity and thinking it was trash. That doesn’t happen any more.
So really all to say, it might be worth trying some habit hacks before flipping the whole thing over.
The part I don’t always like is the app experience. Not that it’s hard to use but browsing a shelf /rack is so much better. Just like finding a movie at blockbuster was easier than on Netflix. Grocery store > instacart.
That's what I've been doing. Since going remote I've been buying about one post rock instrumental album per month from Bandcamp to listen to while I work. Then I download to my NAS and re-upload to my (free tier) YouTube Music account.
I just wish Amazon digital albums were available in Canada, I don't want to have to buy CDs.
I very much feel you. I have a pretty large mp3 collection that is a mix of pirated, bought or ripped from (library) CDs. I started using Spotify only a few years ago when maintaining a phone library started to get cumbersome. Geniunely hated their reccomendation algorithm.
I've discovered nts.live somewhere in 2021 and have been listening a lot to their shows. The selection of music is diverse and very obviuosly curated.
Where else would I find a podcast of lofi outsider pop that ventures from brittle shoegaze/ambient track into one of the greatest disoc/pop songs ever sung by a 10 year old girl: https://www.nts.live/shows/okonkole-y-trompa/episodes/okonko... (Around 1h40min)
> There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool.
I used to do this before the streaming services existed. I used to buy a handful of MP3's from Amazon (don't laugh) per month. I would also buy used CDs and rip it to MP3. Apple Music is included with monthly cell phone bill so I now "rent" some of my music now, it's just easier. I'm careful not to just download whole albums outright though, I have a curated collection of songs I like and I still use the old star ratings in iTunes. I also pay for $25/year for iTunes Match to maintain my legacy collection.
My first iPod was the original Shuffle. The one that was basically a thumb drive with a headphone jack and some buttons. It's still sitting around somewhere, I think. It was a brilliant little device for its time, just an objectively good product. It was easy to use. It didn't try to sell you stuff, it didn't try to box you into buying more Apple products. It just was, and it was good.
As for buying albums- Do it. Something about listening to a whole album puts my head at ease. My car's glovebox is stuffed with CDs I got in places ranging from the local bookstore to a dive bar in Memphis. It's great music, but it's also a fond memory.
>There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool.
This is what I do! And for similar reasons. It's actually really great because a) you can pick up used CDs and vinyl for cheap, b) you get to listen to the whole album, c) there are no screens involved. I didn't realize how oppressive screen-based music selection has become until I ditched it. I love my setup (and you can pick up great used audio equipment for cheap now, too.) Just do it - and if you don't like it you can get rid of it all on ebay.
I'm looking into a slightly less retro take on this, with the files stored on my phone and played via bluetooth.
Is anyone aware of any geeky workflows for this, e.g. having a giant collection on a server and regularly updating the local selection. A simple player app etc. A service independent way to store favourite tracks and playlists etc.
Or have streaming services stolen all tha air from this sector?
The aggressivness of Apple Music hints that those services will start getting annoying.
I support my favorite artists directly on Bandcamp by buying their digital albums. I put them in my personal Plex server to listen when/wherever. And you usually get download options for lossless formats.
Will sometimes buy the vinyl version as they usually come with a digital download. It's even nicer to lay on the couch and blast the full album without any iPod clicking to deal with ;)
> Sad to see it go, even though really it’s been gone since the iPhone launched.
I've seen it being carried as a daily driver instead of a phone by few privacy and security conscious folks. Considering that use case, iPod Touch was a great value for money. Guess they'll carry iPad mini now i.e. if they really want to stick with Apple (app) ecosystem.
Yeah i loved the Ipod, and I loved the ability to listen to "my music" whenever i wanted. It was a major game changer, and now I can do the same but "my music" no longer feels special so it hardly seems to matter. Media has become a commodity good with the maturation of the internet, substitute goods have never been easier to find.
I do the same thing with Netflix. I used to get DVDs (then Blu-rays) but their quality was consistently bad (damaged discs) and their collection has turned to crap. So now I just stream Netflix (cuz the family would lynch me otherwise), but I buy a Blu-ray every month with the money I'm saving.
I buy Blu-Rays for films and shows I really like. Streaming services may be 4K, but the bitrate of a 4K stream is typically just a fraction of even a 1080p BD, and it really shows.
I've been doing this, would definitely recommend it. I have also considered getting an old school music player, but I'd rather not carry around yet another device when a big reason I bought the phone I bought was having a headphone jack.
If your phone has a slot for an SD card, load it up (opus sounds good enough for on the go) with your collection and you can have the benefits of an old school player behind an app interface on the phone you already carry everywhere.
Phones these days have so much internal storage that I haven't had to use an sd card, although my phone does have a slot for one. I prefer to use plex and plexamp for my music so I have the conveniences of streaming services with the ownership and classic music player feel of old school devices.
Having tried Youtube Music, Tidal and Amazon Music, I feel that the UIs of most streaming apps and even most music apps in general are not that great.
You can buy the songs on iTunes or whatever it is called and then you can later sync it to an iPod - and there are repairs on youtube where they put in fresh new batteries.
> There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool. I find myself enjoying music significantly less now I have unlimited access to everything I could ever want. It’s become disposable; just background noise rather than something I’m actively experiencing.
I strongly prefer the "sit down and listen to a whole album" experience anyway, at least from artists who make a deliberate attempt to put together a cohesive album and not just one or two bangers and a bunch of filler.
Sitting down and listening to a Bowie album or something is a time capsule, and I'm not a boomer so it's not childhood nostalgia either. It's nice to sit down and listen to an hour of music that was specifically curated to produce a certain experience.
> Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a charge and isn’t battered to all hell is quite difficult these days, and even so, it’s much harder to justify a single use device for music when I literally always have my phone with me.
FYI you can replace the battery in an iPod... someone pointed me towards Cameron Sino as being an extremely reputable supplier of replacements (I've known of them for a long time but I had no idea they sold direct to consumer!).
Also, if you are not enamored with needing to use iTunes, the "Rockbox" open-source firmware targets Apple hardware and that should allow it to act like a plain old USB Mass Storage device. I used to use it like 15+ years ago on my iRiver H320 music player.
(the name "iRiver" actually predates the ipod! They were a korean company who became known for making very capable flash and HDD mp3 players for their day, with OGG Vorbis support and line-in recording and many other neat features.)
Also also, if you are interested in improvements, or your HDD died, you can get an IDE-to-CF adapter or perhaps SD/MicroSD or mSATA or M.2 (not sure what's available nowadays) and use a normal flash drive. At the time they were popular this often implied a reduction in capacity, but flash is big now and you can probably get like a 1TB drive and with Rockbox it should recognize it. Not all cards work, but I think the dividing line is often "cards that speak IDE" vs cards that don't - many of the high-spec CompactFlash cards actually have a "native IDE" mode so they speak the same protocol as the original drive did. It also substantially improves battery life, because you're going from a spinning drive pulling a couple watts to a flash card pulling ~nothing.
If your device is physically battered to hell then yeah, not much you can do besides try to find a replacement. But if your ipod is still in decent shape with a fresh battery and a flash adapter it'll be better than new. Do try to minimize the number of assembly/disassembly cycles though, there's lots of little plastic clips in most devices and they won't last forever.
Also, Fiio made some devices with very similar ergonomics to the ipod (eg the scroll wheel) like the X5 and X5ii, although like most others they've gone to android nowadays. I have an X5ii that will take a pair of 128GB microSD cards and it has a solid hifi headphone amp built in.
I had a 6th gen iPod Classic that I used for almost 15 years before it finally died on me a few months back. Dedicated music players nowadays are a niche market, so it was really hard to find a replacement. I ended up getting a FiiO M5, and while it's definitely got some pros -- much better sound quality, can pop in a 512GB/1TB SD card for effectively infinite space for compressed songs, can play FLAC/WAV/OGG -- the ergonomics of the iPod were just so much better. It's funny how seemingly little things can be so frustrating: there's only enough space on the screen for 4 names at a time, the scrolling isn't adaptive so it takes forever to get to the bottom, the play order isn't consistent with the song display order within a folder... I used to love just browsing my music collection on my iPod on the train to work, but with the M5 I'll just pick an album or playlist and press play. It's just not as fun to flip through music.
I don't consider myself an Apple fanboy, but the iPod was a rock solid product that got all of the little things right. Given that the market for standalone DAPs is tiny because most people today just use their phones and music streaming apps, it's unlikely that we'll ever see a music player that compares to it.
It's a shame that personal music players are still so niche. The hardware coming out of China right now blows any phone out of the water in terms of usability, performance, and battery life, all at a fraction of the cost.
We're in a Renaissance age of mobile listening thanks to ChiFi. I love carrying around a second device that has no persistent connection to the internet, no notifications, and can drive any headphones I throw at it... With sideloaded Audible and Tidal to boot.
Media used to be this easy and pleasurable to consume before phones got it the way.
Battery life? Usability? Renaissance?? Have I been trying the wrong DAPs?
I'm also really into single-purpose electronics. My whole library is FLAC, so these players should be right up my alley. Except they tend to be heavy and expensive, and when it comes to UI, either they're using Android poorly, with incredibly bad battery life (HiBy R5/R6, Fiio M9, A&K anything), or they're using a custom UI with pre-iPod UX sensibilities. And even when they use Android, they try to graft their own UI onto it, so that in the end you have the worst of both worlds -- just watch what happens to the volume settings on any Android-based HiBy DAP after connecting with Bluetooth.
The communities that buy this stuff are much more into the technical and theoretical sound quality than how it actually comes together as a product. The marketing reflects that; the product pages are all litanies of incremental DAC processor upgrades, circuit diagrams, and cryptic audio codecs. And because this is what folks care about, it's hard to find reviewers who even mention into UX.
If you have a rec I'm all ears, because I'm on the verge of resuscitating my original Pixel just for this.
but then I am forced to use the Apple Music app, which is sadly moving away from library management to streaming. It's still a good advice for the many people with old iphones in their drawers.
For me, physical buttons are the best UI. Completely agree with the screen UI being ugly but being able to play/pause, switch songs, change volume, and rewind my book using a clicky button beats any touchscreen UI imo.
I'm using an AK SR25 right now and absolutely love it. It's pretty small.
My HiBy R3 has solid battery life (north of fiften hours of continuous playtime) and nice physical buttons, but I agree the custom UI is very sub-par, and I get somewhat more mileage of it as a high-quality bluetooth DAC than as a DAP.
Korean, not Chinese, but I'm a massive fan of Cowon products. The (sadly discontinued) Cowon J3 was legendary, rightfully called the best DAP of all time by many. Currently have a Cowon Plenue D2 in my pocket.
Phones come with like 128 GB of storage. Not all is usable but that accommodates like four days of continuous uncompressed music. How long do you really go without a network connection and need music for?
Also I think they playback with hardware don’t they? They aren’t running the CPU. It uses a trickle of charge just like your iPod.
IMO a person who wants to store music on their phone locally doesn't want to supplement streaming, they want to replace it entirely. If they didn't then you're right, all of the major DSP's offer local storage through their apps and the 128/256/512 GB options available from iPhones is fine. (no idea what the limit is like for Android phones, I'm sure it's much more)
Well, if you use Bluetooth you're no longer using the DAC inside the DAP, so it's not "driving" the headphones in the sense that GP meant. That said, most DAPs support bluetooth these days, with trendy codecs like LDAC, aptX-HD, etc. However, eschewing the device DAC kinda wastes a lot of the money you spent on the DAP.
For Bluetooth usage a year or two ago I would have recommended the Shanling M0. All these devices have awful touchscreens and the M0 is no exception, but it's tiny, light, and has long battery life. Unfortunately, in this space the manufacturers tend to discontinue products in favor of new ones within a year.
Speaking of ChiFi, the latest Fiio flagship portable DAP, the M17, looks like what happens when your industrial engineer has a mental breakdown and completely loses his shit.
The thing is thick and dissipates so much heat that they have an official active cooling stand to go with it. How is that portable? What makes the whole situation funnier is that they spin it as a feature, calling it "Desktop tier heat dissipation" (you can't make this up).
I'd love a suggestion or three - my old ipod nano is dying and I would find sifting through the junk/good on alixpress or other sites almost impossible without recommendations.
I also prefer it not to have internet, notifications, etc, so that sounds perfect.
If building your own isn't acceptable, I like the Sony Walkman series quite a bit. I have a WM1A and a ZX300 and I have minimal complaints other than they cost way too much. There are also a bunch of Chinese brands making players with decent DAC's, but they all use the same Android interface with minimal tweaks for the most part, the battery life and UX sucks.. Definitely wish there were more high quality off the shelf players for the non-audiophile who doesn't want to use their phone for everything.
Apple iPod! By far. There are some outright strange things about the Sony app like not being able to manage a queue of songs easily without creating an adhoc playlist, the navigation is sometimes frustrating, and the default desktop app they provide to sync songs to the player in a manner that will keep lyrics and song art intact is absolutely atrocious. But pretty much everything else is good and there's nothing else on the market so...
Fiio does have the X5 which has a similar jogwheel but I agree with you that the lack of exponential scrolling does make it annoying. Not sure if that's patent-encumbered (fuck UX patents) or what.
Rockbox does have exponential scrolling, but only supports a limited list of hardware. There is an "unstable port" for the Fiio M3k but that's not what either of us own ;)
Might be a good project for someone here who wants to play with embedded hardware! It's one of those situations where once you get it up and going on a particular set of hardware, you will benefit from a lot of "passive" development from others, both past and future.
iPods have made a bit of a comeback. Checkout r/iPod there's people modding them by adding bluetooth and USB-C. There are adapters to replace the hard drive with MicroSD. (iFlash)
They (iPods) are relatively simple and new replacement parts are readily available. Pick up an old iPod off ebay and install a new battery. It's a fun little project, I've done it a few times now.
What a press release: the actual main message -- iPod touch is being discontinued -- has been weasel-worded out of the entire text, to the point that a non-native reader of English wouldn't even be able to decipher what it's trying to say.
I get that it's second nature for corporate marketing to try to dampen the message when they're taking something away, but this is on a whole new level.
That’s not the main message. No one cares that iPod touch is being discontinued. No one was buying them.
People see this news as the "end of an era" -- an era that began with Apple's reinvention in the early 2000s. That's the implicit message. There are two ways to interpret this:
1. Wow, what an iconic product. Come to think of it, we haven't really felt that way about a new Apple product in a while... Maybe this is not just the end of iPod, but of Apple's product innovation, too?
2. Wow, what an iconic product. Wild to think that we could only have 1,000 songs but even that was revolutionary. Apple changed music forever and they're still ahead of the industry with products like AirPods and Spatial Audio. I wonder what they'll do next?
Interpretation #1 is a very real risk to Apple’s brand. It's the job of their PR team to steer the message toward interpretation #2.
It doesn't help that Apple was pretty much hiding that they still sold them. They were not discoverable through the site or most Apple stores. You have to use the search or ask someone about it, respectively. They were pivoting away from it first.
Which is a pretty reasonable way to manage a phase-out, and points to one of the many advantages Apple holds in controlling the retail relationship with their customers: They can heavily de-emphasize a product they want to be rid of, and measure how much effort people will go to to still track it down, or whether those customers end up upgraded to iPhone or the various iPad options— including "mini" ones that aren't even all that much bigger than a modern iPhone Max.
"while supplies last" is literally the only reference in there hinting (can't really call that stating) that iPods are discontinued, right? Did I miss something else?
Not really. Pretty clear is: "We are no longer manufacturing iPod touch. Customers can purchase ... while supplies last".
This is:
"You can buy our product while we sell it"
"Music is super great isn't it"
"We have lots of ways to let you listen to music"
"We love that our customers like listening to music"
"So yeah, as we clearly said, you can buy our product while we sell it"
I'd argue that the primary message they were trying to convey was something that had to be inferred from their text, as opposed to being something clearly stated in their text, and therefore that it is NOT clear.
Every product is available while supplies last. The question is, will more supplies be manufactured after that? This article doesn’t say either way. The amount of corporate Apple speak here, where everything is positive dnd amazing, is really annoying to me.
Their language says "will be available" and "can purchase", which actively promotes iPods for sale. Saying "while supplies last" is more of a hint than a direct and clear statement that production has stopped.
Most of the time when advertising says "while stocks last" it's not an indication that something has been discontinued, it's just a prompt to make you want to buy one.
For the last 2 years I’ve been using an iPod touch as my “downtime” device. I usually put my iPhone away in a drawer from early evening until I’m ready to start work the next day. I found this impossible to stick to until I got an iPod touch, because in the evenings and mornings I often need to manage things like HomeKit devices or other Apple ecosystem things like Reminders. I don’t have any distracting or time-sucking apps on the iPod touch, and the screen is small and fiddly, so I barely use it except for a few seconds here and there for something practical. The difference in stress levels and mindset has been huge. I can’t recommend highly enough separating your phone usage into ‘social/work/news/comms’ and ‘practical/home/calm’ categories, on different physical devices.
I have tried using the new iOS Focus and Downtime features to make my iPhone work a similar way (hide all the time-sucking apps at certain times of day etc), but having a dedicated device for the purpose is much simpler and much more effective.
I do something similar but not quite the same with my iPad: it has most of the same (non-work) apps that my phone does, but I've disabled all notifications for all apps so it never yells at me; it's an entirely chill-out/self-directed device where nothing ever grabs at my attention
I treat my main phone as a notification entrypoint; trash-notifications are turned off, of course, but every messaging, calling, email, etc app has them turned on. If I want to know if anything relevant to me has happened, I look there or keep it nearby. If I don't have a notification there, I know nothing has happened
On my iPad, even messages with friends, emails, etc are all blocked. Not even red badges on the app icons. Nothing that can possibly prompt or notify me in any way. I don't think I could get away with that on my main phone
I have an older iPad mini for this purpose (but an old iPhone without a data plan would work too). I setup a separate home@<domain> iCloud account under my family plan and use it exclusively for streaming music vi AirPlay, cooking w/ recipes on Paprika, HomeKit controls, reminders, timers, etc. - no Slack notifications, no calls, no calendar reminders. The AppleTV goes on the same account too. It's really been a great solution.
I've got an old LG V40 for this purpose.
It's got music apps, meditation, and a few other non-social things.
It's also my flashlight if I wake up in the night, and alarm clock to wake me in the morning.
It's essentially an iPhone 7 without a SIM. Just buy one of those. I'm assuming it would cost less than a new iPod touch and it prevents old iPhones from becoming e-waste.
We have a bunch of old iPhones for kids, but we can’t setup iMessage on those phones without an active phone number. We can setup iMessage (email based) on iPad and iPod Touches, so this is frustrating. I want my kids to not be full on cellular internet, but I like that they can message relatively safely friends and family with iMessage.
We use a cell service called Tello for my kids phones. For $5/mo you can get a plan with 100 minutes of voice calls, sms, and no data whatsoever. It's perfect for my kids, since I don't really want them to have mobile data anyway
I'm using an old iPhone without a SIM card as a spare device and iMessage works on it WIFI-only. But I have to admit that initial setup of the Apple ID wasn't done on this phone. Perhaps you could setup your kids Apple IDs on another device and then use them on the old phones with iMessage as well?
You're missing something; I have a first gen SE that's got no SIM and it has email based iMessage setup and working. It's for my son to FaceTime with family.
I don’t believe this is true or something let’s me not need any [working] sim in my phones. I can log into an iCloud account and FT, iMessage accounts on non sim working phones too.
Major problem with that: Phones without SIMs can still make emergency calls (911, etc).
I got one for my kid as a camera. Why? Because it costs as much as many kids cameras, while they're absolute trash, and the camera module/software in the iPod takes really high quality photos that are easy to export or manipulate.
Old iPhones are inexpensive, but you cannot disable emergency calling for a good reason, but that good reason still doesn't make you want to hand one to a 7-year-old as a glorified camera.
Both. Just a whole scope of problem that can be eliminated by not getting a device with a cellular modem. Plus a lot of iOS devices have strange interactions with iPhones without phone numbers (imessage and signal for two specific examples).
This is the worst thing about Signal, IMO. I want to use old phones as backup communication devices (wifi) but can't natively use the software that way.
It’s not even pedantic. The next line says “new iPods” are pricier than iPhone 7s. So they meant non new iPhone 7s. Followed by e-waste which wouldn’t be about a new device
The person knows that. If you read on. That’s why they say it’s probably cheaper than a new iPod. By saying “new” for iPod, it’s a distinction versus iPhone 7s. Then they bring up e-waste which is about used devices being re-used. Not using a new device.
Minus being able to listen while charging (or dealing with more adapters), losing your adapter after you pocket it when you want to use your headphones on any other device, etc...
I'm sorry but I disagree. I carried around a game boy pocket, with several game cartridges just fine as a kid. I see kids taking Nintendo switches and an iPad everywhere with them today.
On an iPod FaceTime and iMessage work as expected over Wifi. Last time I tried to use an iPhone without a sim card they didn't work. Is that still the case? If so, is it a technical limitation or an intentional one?
Yeah I posted about it above and people said it works fine. I wonder if it depends on who you original carrier was or something? I'm going to try again!
If you’ve got a kid or kids, don’t even give e-waste a second thought. The environmental cost of a new person is so astronomical as to make any other decision you make a rounding error.
Why would you even what that? I get the opposite (phone without internet), but this has all the downsides for the development of a child without the advantage of a child being able to contact their parents or vice versa?
The iPod touch cannot call 911. The iPod touch doesn't require me to have a phone contract. Not every kid needs a phone, but having an iPod touch keeps the kid from getting bullied by the "Blue Message" crowd.
iPod touches also sent iMessages, since all you need is an Apple ID.
That's why I said "having an iPod touch keeps the kid from getting bullied by the "Blue Message" crowd" - It was the device you could buy a kid and not worry about the green messages.
iPhones without phone contracts can still call 911.
My main driver is an iPhone SE from 2016, which I bought used in 2019 for 50 euro (about 50 dollars). Best phone I've ever had. It does get worse with every update just like every other device with software updates), but it's still quite usable.
I wish I learned the trick of "buying quality devices that are a few years old and using them until end-of-life" ages ago (also works great with laptops, though Apple's ones tend to stay expensive despite their age, so it works better with Thinkpads), I've spent so much money on brand new devices, which did not benefit me in any meaningful way.
More to the thread: I too am puzzled by the idea of giving my child a device that allows them to rot their brain but doesn't allow us to call each other. Seems like it should be the other way around—I keep hearing how the people who run big tech companies don't let their kids use technology, because they know how harmful it is.
from apple's vantage point, the watch (with airpods) is meant to fill this niche (more lucratively for them). apple even went against its own one-user-one-device edict to allow one iphone to control multiple watches to support this positioning.
edit: i should add that this is also one of the reasons apple has the "voice only" music subscription.
The iPad mini might be Apple's response to mostly fill the gap. The device can run phone apps without having the features of calling/texting.
The tablet also has more educational value as it supports handwriting and drawing, though it comes at the cost of not being pocket-size (adding inconvenience for users who just want to listen to music).
The regular "iPad" is more similar. Low priced model that lags behind the design and power of the flagship models. Starts at $329 vs $500 if you don't mind the big bezels, lightning port, and A13 processor with 3GB RAM.
Mini has the small bezels, USB-C port, supports the magnetically charged stylus, and has an A15 with 4 GB RAM, so it's priced more in line with the iPad Air even though it's the small one.
I used to have an iPad Mini, I think 3? Whichever model was before it got Touch ID. Back then it was a smaller and cheaper version of the normal iPad, more recently it's moved to the middle of the line (but below the "Pro" versions).
I just realized the iPad mini I still use doesn’t have Touch ID. I have an iPad mini 3. It’s slow on the last OS it can be on, iOS 12. I use it because a jailbreak tweak that can last.fm scrobble (tracks listening/viewing history) works on older devices like that one.
Just went and checked, the Mini 2 didn't have Touch ID, the 3 added it but changed pretty much nothing else.
I think what I had was a 2 purchased after the 3 came out, someplace was clearing them out for around $150 off even though it was practically the same device except it took half a second longer to unlock. Pretty good deal, eventually got demoted to kitchen recipe screen.
The iPad mini costs more than an iPhone SE. it’s not that small either so if it isn’t going to be in your pocket, an iPad is over $100 cheaper.
I think the iPad Mini makes sense as a product line in general. Which is being a smaller screen (and thus cheaper) iPad Air. It does work as an option, but so do iPads.
These days parents hand down their phone to their kids so its basically free from that perspective. The height of the iPod Touch was the time when parents were only just getting their first smartphone.
iPhone SE 2nd generation (from early 2020) will be pretty cheap nowadays with the 3rd gen out. Probably still a bit pricier than an iPod Touch, but Apple went long periods of time without updating the Touch. While not reducing the price.
Though it won’t be possible to get new iPhone SE 2nd gen for long. At that point, a refurbished or used 11 or XR or SE 2nd gen will not be too much. The latter two should be cheaper than a new iPod Touch.
The iPod touch was so great for me as a kid, it provided an accessible (read - cheap) platform I could plug into a Mac and deploy iOS apps to at a young age.
Now there's really no reason to keep it around, as you can get an off-contract used iPhone that is better in every dimension for less money. Still feel a bit sad to see it leave.
I fell in love with computers through jailbreaking iPod touches. Back then, for me a jailbroken ipod felt like there was a whole world waiting for me; and you could tweak anything at all. I eventually started running a mini business at my school, offering to jailbreak anyones ipod/iphone (for a small fee, of course). I would even put a custom boot logo advertising my enterprise on all my customers device. Looking back now, that feels a bit scummy, but at the time I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
It never left. The iPhone is the new iPod, it just has more features that make it more than just a music player and more importantly has the option for a SIM (although it isn't necessary).
I get what you mean though. I think the iPhone SE has taken its place in terms of affordability.
I've owned so many iPods from the very first and loved each one. Now I don't care for ~iTunes~/Apple Music and the dumbed-down walled garden that it lives it. It's not even because I carry a smartphone. Just the other day I was researching non-Apple music players.
To me the iPod died with the introduction of the Touch which was a cheap iPhone, that had lower quality standards even in the area of sound quality. iPhones have no headphone jack so they're not suitable listening devices if you care about audio quality (or are willing to carry an external DAC). Apple Music makes nothing about managing music on any Apple device great.
M1 Macs are doing well, and still waiting to see what happens with iPadOS and if it can live up the the 'OS' name in terms of creation not consumption apps.
> iPhones have no headphone jack so they're not suitable listening devices if you care about audio quality (or are willing to carry an external DAC).
The $9 official headphone dongle is a superior DAC to most audiophile products and has a bigger R&D budget than that entire industry. Same goes for Google’s USBC dongle.
You can still carry around an amp if you have very power hungry headphones though. Personally, I don’t think I could ABX lossy audio while outside dodging cars in the crosswalk.
The concept of using dongles while walking around seems like it wouldn't be without inconvenience. What is your setup like and does it disconnect sometimes while walking?
Agreed. Using a dongle is a terrible experience. I had to buy a few cause they kept breaking for me. The primary way I listen to music on my phone is while walking around with my phone in my pocket. In addition, the lightning port can get dust in it so sometimes it is difficult to maintain a good connection. The connection kept coming loose and causing the music to stop for me. I even had my phone’s lightning port cleaned at an Apple authorized repair center, but the problem came back after around a month. Never had that problem with a 3.5mm audio jack in my life.
I ended up having to buy Bluetooth headphones just to listen to music on my iPhone which has its own problems because they have to be charged all the time.
Damn, ain't that a shame. I had suspected the dongle would be susceptible to that, which is why I was curious initially. What bluetooth headphones are you on?
I am currently looking around for a standalone digital player, no market, no apps, no fancy anything, with a wired headphone (currently looking at KZ EDX Pros, despite the crinacle drama). Might end up getting another sandisk and doing a mod on it to hold 1TB. Those things are damn near bullet proof but their secret weakness is my washing machine
I mainly use AirPods, but my problems with cables have been microphonics (it transmits sounds from rubbing on your clothes) and being too long and not having anywhere to put the length. Disconnection has never been an issue, putting the phone downwards in your pocket is fine.
Since smartphoners have taken over, we are seeing most businesses insisting on users' owning and sharing their phone numbers. WiFi-only devices like iPod Touch could have played an important role in resisting this trend - especially with kids. Too bad there never were any popular WiFi-only models in the Android world.
I don't get it. Though iPod Touch is a lotta bit of feature creep, surely the portable media player market is still profitable. I just want it to play music and fit all my music in my change pocket. Bring back the iPod Shuffle!
Thank you for reminding me iPod Shuffle! Gosh, this was a crazy good thing. Now everything is in an (i)Phone... Shuffle was honestly the first mass-market wearable device that worked. I love not taking my phone on a longer runs/hikes, but I want my music. With 2022 Apple Shuffle I could have my Apple Music with me lightweight, but I cannot. Sure I could used Apple Watch for this, but I'm in Garmin ecosystem... sigh. Gimme my music without transferring MP3 files I can buy on Amazon or directly from the artist to my Garmin watch, so I could just run with my watch.
Or you know, Garmin, split-off your wearables division in separate company, Apple buys it, Apple takes some Garmin thingies into Apple Watch, create Apple Watch Pro based on Garmin Hardware and sports functions, add Apple software and we're golden. This is a business advice, if Garmin/Apple decide to do this, compensate me. /s
So does a lot of companies selling on Aliexpress/Alibaba, but this doesn't help with my infrastructure problem - I would still need to buy and copy manually MP3 files onto the player.
Dedicated music players has become an audiophile market. That means volumes are too low for a company that sells enough Airpods for that business alone to be almost 10X the revenue of Snapchat, while being under 5% of Apple revenue. You have to use a microscope to see the iPod numbers.
Isn't that what the Apple Watch is supposed to do?
I agree that a relatively simple, relatively low-priced media player with great build quality would have a market - but Apple would be cannibalising it's 'fitness-oriented' market if they allowed both the Shuffle and the Watch to exist.
Yeah, but you can't use the Watch as a standalone device (something that, as a WatchOS developer, I have always found stupid beyond reason...it should just have limited functionality on its own, including media playback) - if you could, not only would they sell millions upon millions more of them, but it could be a reasonable replacement for an iPod.
Until then, if you want to use it as an 'iPod', it's just another expense on top of the iPhone you already have that's your 'iPod'.
Apple cancelling the iPod line completely is frankly dumb. I know at least a dozen parents who use these for their kids.
Also, what's with all the people suggesting parents just buy an iPhone with no sim? Y'all realize that the cheapest iPhone is twice as much as the $199 iPod Touch? :/
Especially if you're on Wi-Fi and I believe on cellular (we still don't have it here in 3rd world) you can just go hiking with the watch and stream your music on Bluetooth without phone.
Same for messaging, fitness tracking, and voice calls. I think it's enough for that device.
What exactly are you asking for the Watch to do? I load mine with music to play while my phone is in a gym locker all the time. Do you just want to be able to get files onto it without needing an iPhone? There are "millions upon millions" of people clamoring for that feature?
The watch isn't 100% standalone but I have no issues listening to music and podcasts away from my phone and I think people using it for listening to music while exercising away from the phone is a huge selling point for many people.
Just to highlight this point, an iPhone is required for activation. You can't activate with any other Apple device. You can use a family member's iPhone.
You can still buy new portable music players, including some Sony branded walkmans, but at least the Sony ones are just with an expensive DAC, some hardware buttons and interally run Android. Probably has too, because most people get their music through streaming.
Sorta-related topic: I like to listen to music while I run. I currently use a 7th Gen iPod Nano. It works because it's small and it has Bluetooth; I just put it in my pocket and go. However, I would rather have this same functionality (play music, Bluetooth) on a wristwatch device, as the iPod bouncing around in my pocket can be kinda annoying.
All the popular "smart watch" devices are packed with functionality I just don't want - not interested in having my fitness tracked or reading text messages while I run. I just want music and Bluetooth, and I guess a stopwatch/timer, too. That's it.
I've looked around and the best I could find was a wristwatch device straight outta Shenzhen. I bought it, and unsurprisingly, it was junk.
Does anyone know of a quality wristwatch device that only plays music and has Bluetooth (and stopwatch/timer)? Does a product like this exist? Or, is it "smart watch" or nothing (or junk)?
Take a look at Garmin's products. Does what you want, and if there is no model that doesn't do what you don't want, just don't turn those features on. For example, I already have an Apple Watch, I don't care about "smart watch" stuff on my Garmin. But their top-of-the-line 945LTE that I bought for running also has "smart watch". I just want running stuff, so I simply did not pair the watch with my phone. There, no smart stuff. (Granted, I guess I'm paying for features I don't use...)
I also couldn't find anything new that rivals the iPod Nano 7th gen's form factor and focused features. I tried looking at Sony players, but they are usually bigger or have an interface that is not as friendly. Knowing it is (soon) obsolete I bought a second one. For many years, I have played Audible audiobooks in these devices in my commutes.
I think the iPod was somewhere in the area where I discovered all the nice to have features and polish of Apple products that made me admire Apple. (I was into PCs long before that but my exposure to Apple was limited and I wasn't all that impressed)
By no means was the iPod perfect, and it was effectively the same product as many other media players that came before and after, other products even had more features sometimes ... and yet the friction of using the iPod was just lower to the point that I enjoyed using it more than other media players at the time.
It's a mysterious process to me finding those places to make use of a thing easier, more intuitive and etc. When something is bad it is easy to see, but there's a step beyond "take away the bad friction" that I'm always wondering about when I'm building things. I never quite reach that Apple-ish feel.
> it was effectively the same product as many other media players that came before and after, other products even had more features sometimes
For me, at the time, the iPod (Classic) was a worst-in-class product (required iTunes, pretended it didn't know what a file was, annoying to navigate, etc.) The iPod Touch was that but also not attractive.
I think one of the things was the iPod wasn't "for" most of us who were face down in our piles of MP3s and managing them and etc.... at least not at first.
One of those cases where the first in the market consumers / enthusiasts weren't the best folks to take your hints from as far as the future of that tech.
Arguably they've long been left behind by streaming services and etc. My piles of files are certainly just ... sitting there now.
Nah, it was absurdly heavy marketing. I don't remember any other mp3 player being marketed at all. The click wheel was also cool, although pragmatically it sucked and nobody ever used it on on anything again.
Also, buying an mp3 player was a bit of a minefield back then, because you couldn't tell if it behaved as a drive or through some elaborate software DRM/obfuscation dance that might even be specific to Windows ("playsforsure," maybe? Talk about an Orwellian name.) At least people knew that the iPod would work.
edit: I mean, it was on every billboard and the side of every bus in solid dayglo colors. Comedy shows like SNL did sketches about the ads. This went on for years.
This might be true, but only if you stay on the "beaten path". If you do anything they don't intend you to do with these devices it ends up being a massive pain and you often just end up getting hit with the ol' "you're holding it wrong".
I feel like product defects are .. a thing everywhere. Holding it wrong was just bad choices related to it, but it's not like that's unique to products tailored to specific use patterns either.
To be honest I was surprised that it lived on this long, and couldn't even understand why Apple released the 7th generation. It doesn't have a non-niche use, at least not in any profitable form worth supporting a device category.
It was great for its time and I've owned and loved my iPod touches, but we can't expect a for-profit company to keep selling a device with no future and only a niche market, eventhough the device was iconic at some point in the past.
Good move, and a big cherish to the iPod for changing the way we listen to music back then.
Other vendors fail to understand that sometimes the reason people use their product is because it's not Apple. Most of the regressions I've seen in the Windows 11 UI/UX are from them trying to imitate Apple.
I imagine that Apple would never bring back an iPod in the future with the clicky wheel because it could be perceived as 'backwards looking' and cuts against their desired image as 'innovators' who bring out the 'next thing'. Bit sad, because my memory of the later generations of the Nano is that it was an excellent device.
It's probably true that most people just get their music and podcasts through streaming services on their phones though, so perhaps they don't care to keep a niche product around.
I think we'd all probably welcome that... except Apple, because I just did a quick Google and it does look like Apple have successfully patented (Patent 7,932,897) the clicky wheel input. So I don't think a US based company like Analogue could get away with that!
Looks like I finally moved my dad from an iPod touch to an iPhone SE at the right time.
(He was convinced, for whatever reason, he couldn’t figure out how to use an iPhone…despite he uses an iPod touch, and an iPad, and quite fluently. And within 1 day he was delighted, because he finally had something approximating a useful camera in his pocket.)
Yes, yes. I also would consider myself highly aware of my phone, and I have called back spam callers I don't know how many times from both the "Recents" tab and the notification screen. I'm generally impressed with the usability of Apple's default apps, so this one stands out. You'd really think the "Phone" app on the "iPhone" would be a bit better thought out.
I think the problem is that the Phone app has a lot of legacy behavior from the early days of the iPhone when people actually used the phone functionality. As the sibling commenter notes, they only recently changed the incoming call notification to not take over the entire screen regardless of what else you were doing. It's just not totally fixed yet.
And the thing is: this is better than it used to be.
At least every single phone call doesn’t interrupt at the absolute highest level of priority and take over your screen entirely. Up until…iOS 14?…you didn’t really have a choice to not deal with an incoming call while using the phone: a call immediately took over.
Reading the comments of the young'uns here, yes, you should buy an iPod and keep music on it. As a child of the 80s and 90s, I re-found mechanical pencils and it changed my 40s. I kid you not. I'm so happy to pick up a mechanical pencil, it's ridiculous. Why? I don't know. Who cares? Happy.
unfortunate, the ipod touch was a super handy device for all kinds of applications. Great for giving to kids so they could have an 'iphone'. Bought a ton of these back in the day and paired them to bluetooth pairable RFID reader/writer guns for an RFID retail POC. Nice to be able to write software for a platform you know, or can easily hire for, and deploy it to this kind of device. They often have either weird built in SOCs with proprietary apis for UIs.. though sometimes you are now seeing built in android devices so shrug.
End of an era I guess. Couldn't just rebrand it the 'iPad Micro' and keep selling it :)
The retail price is probably the issue. Apple isn’t really in the business [yet] of selling $200 hardware. The iPad Mini is $130 more than the cheapest iPad. Vs having a model cheaper than the cheapest iPad.
It would be funny and maybe even possible! To have a comeback as an iPad Micro and be the size of the normal iPhones or the current 13 Mini. Though I heard because of its unique size for apple hardware, some apps don’t look correct on it.
Edit: I flubbed. Apple TV has to be under $200. Maybe their Alexa competitor too.
Yeah I still see these used as terminals for waitstaff in restaurants, I wonder what they will move to next, iPhones? iPads are kinda huge, iPad mini is kinda expensive...
A smart phone is a poor substitute. The walkmans battery lasts much longer, it's simpler to transfer music too (it's just a USB drive), I can alter the volume change/track just by feel without having to pull it out of my pocket, I can just plug it into my cars USB port, I can drop it, I don't have to use a touch screen or update an OS..,
EDIT: just looked it up, mine is the B series, basically a thumb drive with a little display and some touch controls.
I haven't used the much more expensive ZX series which seems... well a bit pointless to me. Like I said, big advantage of my B series as I can do it all by tactile feel without looking at a screen.
Do you not have to convert the music to Sony's format using their software? I had one of the early Sony mp3 walkman models (the circular "network walkman" I guess it was called)... you couldn't actually transfer mp3s to it, you had to use their software to transcode it (probably decreasing quality). It was still awesome, though!
Nice, yeah mine was a very early one, maybe ~2003-ish. You can see the manual here[0] where they describe "Transferring audio files from the
computer to your Network Walkman" on page 12. It's not said explicitly in the manual but the device wouldn't actually play mp3s, only ATRAC format which the SoundStage software would convert to automatically when you transfer the music to the device. Maybe user backlash resulted in them directly supporting mp3s in later models, as I know I was super ticked about it and didn't buy another Sony music player (eventually bought a 30gb iPod with Video).
Sony is still making modern variants of the Walkman. I'm not a big fan of their Android powered versions, but I like the slightly earlier versions that can only play music.
I ask this question in good faith, coming from a long line of dedicated music devices, including the Diamond Rio PMP300, and a huge, file based, music collection. Why not use a smartphone?
The amp in them is slightly better than a smartphones assuming you are using wired headphones. Other than that I like having dedicated devices that do a thing as good as the thing can be done. It feels like it will never become outdated so I only ever need to continue my library of music in that one place. It's also nice not draining my phones battery by listening to music. Knowing that the device is incapable of tracking you or giving you ads in any way is good too.
I also prefer single purpose devices for retro gaming and taking photos.
Some of us don't want that level of functionality or capability. I prefer a dumb device that lacks the capability to obsolete itself at the behest of the mother ship, or analyze and interpret my behavior for ad revenue
This does jump out to me is a surprisingly profound. I was a freshman in college when the iPod first came out. I was a huge Apple fan, but didn't get their move into consumer electronics. It was so expensive. Why weren't they building more cool Macs instead? 10 years later I was putting serious time toward learning how to develop for the App Store. Another 10 years later and that path has had a profound effect on my career and life. Thinking back to the moment my friend Peter showed me the gen 1 iPod he bought on launch day, the vision, progression, and brilliance you can tie back to that product is astounding.
The day before the first iPod was to launch a co-worker (in marketing, at Apple) loaned me an iPod to take home over night. To this day I am blown away as to how that happened. No way that could have happened with the first iPhone. (In case he was not supposed to do so I'll withhold his name.)
We (the family) were at a car dealership that evening and to entertain my 3 year old I put the ear buds in her ears and gave her the iPod to rock out to.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, no one batted and eye or seemed to take notice of a little girl sporting the white earbuds that would become so iconic later.
Related memory after the iPhone had come out: I remember being on a train in Tokyo where, counting the two other Apple employees with me, we all three had our iPhones out.
Looking around the train though at all the Tokyo-ites with their flip phones and lanyards I began to doubt whether the iPhone was ever going to be able to conquer Japan. If for no other reason, where do you attach a lanyard?
(Or maybe there's a better term for that bit of "personalization" that dangled like a tassel from all the cool, urban Japanese flip-phones.)
it's continually bizarre to me that Japan exists as a tiny insular market that gets all kinds of products and devices that never make it anywhere else, not even china or the rest of SEA.
The rest of the world we never stop hearing about 'there isn't a market for X' but Japan is this tiny market that gets their own things all the time.
Honestly I'm surprised that it took Apple this long to take this product behind the barn and shoot it.
My first device was an iPod touch - but the iPhone is better (clearly). A consolidated line-of-effort for one less platform will be helpful, I think, in allocating talent behind the other products that matter.
Apple hasn’t put any effort into the iPod touch for the past few years. The last refresh was in May 2019, the previous one was in July 2015. The only effort there might have been is for someone to test the latest iOS on an iPod touch, which is a neglible amount of effort, especially for Apple.
When I was a kid, I was looking to buy my first gaming device. I was debating between getting a Nintendo DS and the 4th gen iPod, ultimately deciding on the iPod. This ended up being a great choice as I was able to get more games than I would have been able to on the DS and it opened up a world of being able to text my friends (primarily through Words with Friends at the time).
It's a shame it's being discontinued, it was the perfect first device for children.
As someone who used both devices for gaming, I would say that while the iPod may have had quantity, the DS without a doubt had the quality of games. Amazing library.
Funny how people complain about Apple dropping devices, but this has hung around so long. Thought it was dead years ago. Real use would have been a fake phone for kids.
I see so many bemoaning streaming. Your iPhone can store far more music than an old HDD iPod. Don’t see the difference.
I mostly stream with Spotify. It recommends good obscure music for me, and I can find most of the weird 70s/80s punk I love.
I still have my old records and use them when I want that captive experience. I kept my CDs of super obscure local bands.
For me it’s not an xor, but an and. I like both the new and old experiences. And I still listen to albums more than songs.
The streaming sound quality isn’t nearly as cringe inducing as old MP3s. I’m no audiophile, but hated MP3 less than barely compressed. That crunch on the high end was brutal.
I don’t miss maintaining ripped CDs: fixing metadata, keeping FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, and MP3 for different devices, etc. Never bothered recording my records. I’ll never understand anyone longing for cassette tapes beyond personal mix tapes.
I do still pay for records when I love an album just to kick them more $. But they mostly just go on the wall or collect dust in a bin. I usually only listen to my old LPs.
I store FLAC and just copy it to my phone as-is. I don't have my whole library, of course, but I can cycle stuff as needed and I don't need to convert anything or store two versions of the same albums.
Sad to see the iPod go. I have an iPhone, but it's not the same. There's a lot of value in unitaskers.
I have a long train trip coming up. I'll have my iPhone with me, but I'll also bring my iPod shuffles. They're simply better suited to the task than to have to deal with all the compromises of a device that tries to be everything to everyone all the time.
- Vastly superior battery time. In part, because it's not trying to do a million things other than play music.
- Better ergonomically. I can lay in my berth at night with my wired earbuds and listen with a tiny, durable device instead of a large, fragile device. It's not tragic if I roll over on a Shuffle, or drop it out the side of the bed.
- A shuffle on a small train table takes up much less space than an iPhone. Or no space at all, since I can clip it to my clothing.
- To me, the Shuffles just sound better than the phone. I'm sure there are a million blogs that dispute this with all kinds of mathematical blather. But I use the same earbuds with my Shuffles and my iPhone, and the Shuffles just sound better to my ears.
For me, the feature that beats all of those combined is simply being able to carry all my music around for free. Now I have to either constantly swap it around and filter it, or pay through the nose to stream it.
Damn I love these devices. For me they were a sort of very mini iPad in an iPhone form factor and I loved how they didn't have a baseband processor. Always laughed when trying to download Whatsapp onto them and got an 'Incompatible' message in the app store.
Apple never released new versions frequently though, meaning certain apps became incompatible over time, since iPods couldn't be updated to the latest iOS. My fifth gen device was stuck on iOS 9 for a number of years now and it basically became unusable (and very insecure since apps couldn't be updated along with the OS).
I will be snapping up as many devices as I can from AliExpress & eBay though. Still worth having a few to toy around & tinker with.
Damn I love these devices. For me they were a sort of very mini iPad in an iPhone form factor and I loved how they didn't have a baseband processor. Always laughed when trying to download Whatsapp onto them and got an 'Incompatible' message in the app store.
Apple never released new versions frequently though, meaning certain apps became incompatible over time, since iPods couldn't be updated to the latest iOS. My fifth gen device was stuck on iOS 9 for a number of years now and it basically became unusable (and very insecure since apps couldn't be updated along with the OS).
I will be snapping up as many devices as I can from AliExpress & eBay though. Still worth having a few to toy around & tinker with.
I noticed that the NOMAD lives on in Apple having to be extra specific in today's announcement:
> The original iPod, introduced on October 23, 2001, was the first MP3 player to pack a mind-blowing 1,000 songs and a 10-hour battery into a stunning 6.5-ounce package.
The NOMAD had more storage than the first iPod (6GB vs. 5GB), but weighed 14oz and had a four hour battery life.[0]
I’ve always imagined that an iPod-something would be my child’s first camera/media device. We’re not ready for that leap yet (at only 3 1/2 yo), but I’m curious — what are others opting for in this use case?
Kidless adult asking - why not make the device cellularly capable, just limiting calls (if not data-only)? Most of the time they won't need it, but I can see the benefit of having a cellular-capable device in my kid's possession if they ever found themselves in an emergency situation. I would assume cell carriers could limit the device from doing for-cost things, and there are unlimited data plans again.
Young kids (3 years old) have a knack for finding naughty things.
My mom's bf's 6 year old loves sonic and loves playing sonic video on youtube. We were having dinner and it had autoplayed into some naughty sonic furry stuff and we had to change it also while trying to maintain his innocence and not explain things he might not be ready for. lol. This was last year which I think is after youtube really tried to improve video for children but it still happened somehow.
I remember being 9-10 years old and accidentally clicking a popup and learning about genitals. It's not the best way to learn as a kid. It's better coming from their parents.
They were! And we didn't have popup blockers. lol. I remember you could mess up and accidentally open 1000s of windows (we didn't even have tabs then. lol)
Because you don't want kids having access to the internet unsupervised for obvious reasons.
My little cousins (under 12 years old) get a cellular Apple Watch. That allows their parent to always know where they are and can contact them, but prevents the kids from being able to use the internet.
For my older child, 10, she has a Gabb watch, with very limited cellular capabilities and low monthly cost. My other kid, 7, is unlikely to be in a situation where he's without adult supervision, so not really worth it. Besides, I don't really want my kids to have unfettered internet access, especially when unsupervised.
Our daughter first had two generations of iPod Touch. However, one big downside is that the screen is tiny compared with other devices. About a year ago or so, she switched to an old iPhone 6s without a SIM card and it's fine for Facetiming/messaging with her grandparents and photos.
how about an iPad? mini if the size is a concern for you guys, but the camera is pretty solid, performance means it’ll last your kid years, and there are so many edu-tainment titles on the App Store. i think especially the Pencil (or the child-oriented Logitech alternative) would be great to encourage a growing child’s creativity, as well as apps like iMovie, GarageBand…
Ehhhh I distinctly remember being around 10 years old, getting a miniature landline phone [1], and dialing 911. Then my parents had to explain to the operator that there was no emergency and how sorry they were. Kids do dumb things.
Can you uninstall the phone app, or whatever Apple calls it? I'm using LineageOS and it looks like I can disable it, though I don't care to try right now.
Plus, it's arguably worth risking accidental 911 calls to allow necessary ones. And landlines have had the same risk for decades.
One of my friends kids (about 5) went through a phase where she was fascinated with calling 911. The iPod Touch became the way to handle this, you could hand her the iPod and know she couldn't dial out. Sure an iPad could work, but this girl had siblings and the parents didn't want to have to buy everybody an ipad.
iPad has been my kids only device, media, games, school, etc. They are getting to the age where they want phones but we are holding off.
Also they sometimes need to use laptop/desktop for school but that is rare now that most everything works in Safari or there is an app. Even printing etc works great and they love the pencil. They also have mouse and keyboard for them usually for schoolwork.
I want to think the iPod just became the iPhone without the LTE radio, and manufacturing more iPhones is simply cheaper for Apple. Is there any difference between the iPod touch and the iPhone for media consumption?
Try turning that thought around and you may see why it makes more sense to discontinue. If Apple can get someone to spend an extra $100 on a base-level iPhone instead of an iPod Touch, the margins aren't as good but the product pipeline is simpler and suddenly they're a convert to the iOS ecosystem and all the revenue that brings. It just doesn't make sense to offer a disconnected iPhone type device any more.
Don't ipods run ios as well? If you can buy apps and stuff, that's the same thing from Apple's perspective.
As a variation of the iPhone 7, maybe they just want to finally be done with that era of hardware and having to manufacture chips for it (although they've been great about support), and the volume definitely isn't there to justify an update to a more modern chip.
Lots of frankly silly comments here suggesting parents buy an iPhone without a SIM instead of an iPod Touch?
Assuming you buy them new, the cheapest iPhone is $399 vs. the $199 iPod Touch. Buying used is often a mixed bag. An iPad Mini is $499!
This is basically just a kick in the pants to parents who bought these for their kids.
Guess those parents are going to go off and buy another brand and type of product now, since Apple refuses to offer a price-equivalent product for kids like this. I don't think it would've hurt Apple to keep producing this product...
The end of an era. I used the iPod Touch to develop and use iOs apps without spending money on an iPhone. It was a relatively reasonably priced gateway into the Apple app ecosystem.
I still use my iPods because love to keep my music and audiobooks at home (not in the cloud).
After a lot of research I'm currently testing self hosted solutions:
- Navidrome [1] + Substreamer [4]
- Audiobookshelf[2] + Audiobookshelf-App [5]
- Nokia 1.3 phone [3] without sim (<100$, small, headphone jack, Changeable battery, microSD slot)
Just in case someone finds this interesting: It looks promising to me, but I've not tested the audio quality in detail, which might be a huge difference to the high quality output of iPods.
Too soon. The iPod would be the perfect companion for an Apple Watch once there is a bit more energy available in the battery of the watch.
Instead of selling the watch as an add-on to the phone, the watch could be the central device and the screen of the iPod could be brought out when the voice assistants come to their rare limits.
There is no need for a phone when better screens are available most of the times (e.g. at the desk, the car or the tv).
All the comments lamenting the "end of the iPod" are premature IMO.
Give it a maximum of 5 years, and there'll be some social trend to offer an "minimally online" device to help you disconnect better from your overwhelming digital firehose in the interest of "wellbeing", and some new iPod device will come back.
The 2020's equivalent of the iPod shuffle - deliberately feature limited for a very specific market.
I went down a rabbit hole a few months ago and bought an ipod classic 5.5 with the wolfson dac for ~$40, I plan to modify it a bit storage and battery wise, and possibly some cosmetic mods. I also researched IEM's and paired it with some 'Chi-Fi' IEM's like the moondrop Aria and then got some aftermarket spinfit tips and changed the headphone cable to something of better quality. I plan on upgrading the IEM's to something more expensive but right now these are a good first pair for $70.
The real reason I did all this was because I got nostalgia and could not afford an iPod back in the day but now I see myself buying more exclusive harder to find music because nothing is more annoying that having playlists on Spotify where songs are no longer available/blacked out or deleted rare music from youtube due to copyrights. I would like to have some kind of ownership over my music independent from an internet connection or a streaming service (nice to discover new music) dacs of course are not as good as modern phones of today but goddamit-NOSTALGIA!
The iPod introduced me to Apple's entire ecosystem. Without that early-2000's experience of design, build-quality, and usability, I would probably never have taken the plunge on Mac mini, iPads, and a MacBook.
it's hard to undersell how big a deal the ipod was 15 years ago. the iphone was introduced as an ipod first, a phone second, and an internet communicator third. until the app store launched, most of the ads were "it's an ipod that makes phone calls". and people expected the touch to be good because the click wheel was good
This. This is something that has been interesting to see sort of get mixed up in memory.
The struggling computer company first got into people's pockets with a device that played music (a key insight - people make emotional contact with media). That position then bought them the time to finance development of know-how around pocket computers in plain sight. And then finally when the timing was just right and nobody expected it, they basically leveraged that position to deliver that pocket computer to the masses.
I won’t try to convince you, but go watch the Motorola ROKR introduction from Steve Jobs on YouTube, then watch his introduction of the iPhone at MacWorld 2007.
You can tell when he’s not just selling something, but believes that what he says he is selling is what he is selling.
This is the same Steve Jobs that said on stage Samsung's original Galaxy Tab 7" defeated the purpose of a tablet because he needed to file his fingers down to use it.
He knew full well an iPad Mini was coming the year after. He just had to sell what was on the shelves now.
Ha! I remember that. But if you recall, the first iPad mini was 7.9” and subsequent iPads mini stayed close to the 8” watermark. A decade later my iPhone is a lot closer to 7” at 6.7”.
I think it's the opinion of many, even if they don't realise it. The term "iPod-killer" just dropped out of usage overnight - the iPhone was the iPod-killer, an accomplishment which turned out to be so far down its CV that it was never mentioned.
The iPod changed my life when I was 12 years old. I gave you 6 months of my savings to pay half the price of an iPod (the other half was a Christmas present).
Your sticker said "Don't steal music."
So I stole music. I repaired friends' iPods. Now I work in Embedded Systems.
Now I can't fix my original iPod 1st Generation (P68 Prod) because I don't have the parts. I tried to buy your 5GB hard drive but that didn't work. I asked Tony Fadell and he put a <3 on the tweet.
What is your intellectual property team protecting now? Please can you share the schematic and boardview for the old iPod? It's my "right to repair" or something like that. And the wonderful company that I work for here in New Zealand has an amazing lab with all the tools for fixing everything.
Not surprising but it's fun to reminisce about the iPod Touch. While not technically my first iPod/tech device, it was certainly the first computer that was actually my own which was pretty cool in 2008. I certainly attribute my current tech career to Jailbreaking, it was a great way to learn about Unix style systems.
I'm still using an IPod Nano 5th generation (2009).
I bought it off ebay as a replacement for my iPod Nano 4th generation (2008) that was stolen in a home break-in!
I love it. I dread the day the battery stops working, which it will eventually, and which is probably the only thing that would ever lead the thing not working anymore.
I still put podcasts and mp3's on it. I listen to it in my car (which is also old enough to work with it via a hardwire USB hookup, I also dread the day I replace my car with one that own't), or with headphones when walking.
I've become one of those middle-aged people who doesn't want to change. But the iPod nano still seems like amazing futuristic science fiction technology to me. it's tiny. It Just Works. (although MacOS has started having trouble sync'ing files to it without going crazy with duplicate files, I'm afraid).
This is great news. I have an old iPod touch that i kept because it had no trade-in value. Can't wait for it to be worth something in about a decade or however long it takes for these electronics to become 'vintage'. Also, if anyone wants to pay $$$ for a 2012 Macbook Air..
I still use my 6th generation iPod Nano, mostly for radio, but the usefulness of it is dwindling as more and more stations move away from the FM-band and go digital, it's still a cool device and it also still works with Music/iTunes.
I started using my 6th gen nano again just a couple of weeks ago, after my last-gen iPod classic finally gave up the ghost. I don't know what I'm going to do long-term - the capacity of the nano just isn't enough. It's heartbreaking watching functionality regress like this :(
I have the ipod nano 7th gen with a radio tuner! I also have the 1st gen apple shuffle, that one that looks like a usb stick. I hate all things apple (The Disney of Story Telling) but those 2 gadgets I keep in the kitchen crap drawer.
The iPod touch has got to be the last PDA. Smartphones are the realization of the '90s vision of PDAs, with cellular capability and additional features included, but it's interesting how standalone PDAs no longer exist.
Nobody would buy a standalone PDA these days, mainly because they'd need one core feature: Access to e-mail. At that point, you need, at the very least, a WiFi connection, but customers would likely expect a cellular connection.
And at that point, bam, you have a phone.
You could try to make it "not a phone" by removing the speaker and microphone, but people will occasionally want to play a game, so you'll need the speaker, and someone might want to record speech for note-taking, so you'll need the microphone.
TBH, I'm not sure how you could possibly make a "not a phone" PDA.
Nobody would buy an offline PDA. At least, not enough people to pay for the development of it.
Even back in PalmPilot days, internet connectivity was definitely desirable. I suppose Planet Computers' devices are trying to capture some of the PDA spirit by emphasizing the computing, productivity aspects of smartphones with good keyboards.
Crap :( I always loved the iPod Touch as a secure but tiny device. I use it like a "Secure Element" with my most trusted stuff on it.
I hope the current generation goes on offer before they sell out. Here in Europe there's never been a significant sale on them. I got my current previous-gen for 139 euro but the current model has never been below 200 here.
An iPhone is way too expensive (even the SE is ridiculously expensive in Europe) and I don't want second-hand / "refurbished" crap that third party sellers will have put questionable batteries in. And I don't need a SIM.
The article notes that the first iPod touch came out in 2007. That was just six years after the first inch-thick iPod with a monochrome screen and magnetic storage. The pace of technology really does seem to have slowed down.
So, and this is probably a doomed question, where are the people who are into MP3 players hang out and discuss minutae? Because it seems like they would be the ones to ask about finding something to fit each person's specific requirements (headphone jacks? Battery life? UX? Avoidance of Android under the hood? Decent DACs? File formats? Playlist types supported? Gapless playback?) amidst the absolute sea of jankety choices out there.
My prediction is that -- if there isn't such a forum, one will start soon. It's too big of a niche and I'm told that Apple filled it reasonably well.
I still use my 2006 iPod. It's a 5.5th generation model that came with an 80GB HDD and IIRC I paid $400 for it.
The battery eventually died. Replacements are about $8 and the surgery is easy.
What makes a huge difference though is replacing the HDD with a board that holds an SD card. The board plus a 256GB card cost me around $75 total. The physical swap is relatively simple, and migrating your data is as simple as making a backup through iTunes and restoring it.
I mostly leave it plugged into my car, which has native support for controlling it. Unlike anything Bluetooth, it actually works!
The car integration is an underrated aspect in my opinion.
I used to travel for work and would rent cars. I would spend 3+ mins after picking up each car trying to get my bluetooth to work with my phone until I realised I could just plug in an iPod (from 2005!!) into the USB port of a MY2018+ vehicle and have my entire music library accessible through the car's interface with artwork. Just plug it in, and it would just pick up where I left off, on the podcast/album I was listening to on the plane.
I now use a 16GB 6th gen Nano set to shuffle for all my music needs in my car. I got it cheap since the battery doesn't last that long but it's fine when plugged in all the time.
Just bought one for each of my kids with their names engraved, I’ll load with my favorite albums and leave in storage, in 15 years there will be a revival of ipods and they’ll have a choice to play the hipster card.
I remember having one in highschool, good times, back when all the games on the app store were maybe a few $ at most and in app purchases were mostly unheard of.
iShoot was one of my favorite games to play on it, I miss it.
It would be interesting to show the market capitalisation of all major record labels vs Apple over the last 25 years. File sharing was given a massive leg up at the expense of recorded music and looking back it was really the underground and independent labels that have perished.
When it comes to competing for attention music has a lot more to compete with now than it did then. If I had to predict I can't see a significant cultural change happening like in the 20th century unless new musical instruments are invented
Sad news. I've been waiting for a chin-less upgrade for a while, it made for an amazing gaming/music device, and also a cheap high-quality touch screen remote for random hacks.
Possibly. Apple had used the A10 in the 7th generation iPad released in September 2019 so it's not quite as old in terms of prime usage as the iPhone would suggest. iPhones have often been a few generations ahead of other Apple devices.
The Apple A10 first released 5.5 years ago in the iPhone 7 Geekbenches at 555 single-core in the iPod (1.6GHz) and 722-750 in the iPhone 7/iPad (2.3GHz). Multicore is 1069 for the iPod and 1280-1398 for iPhone/iPad. That single-core speed matches up nicely against processors used in current Android phones like the Snapdragon 690 (571-590), Snapdragon 778G (714-777), Snapdragon 750 (582-643), or Snapdragon 765G (570-593). It's kinda amazing how Apple's A10 from 2016 matches up against the best non-flagship (non-8-series) Qualcomm processors for single-core performance.
I'd guess it might be more around how long Apple wants to support iOS on the hardware. The iPhone 6s (A9) has access to the latest iOS (7 major versions), but I think there's a decent chance that it won't get iOS 16. That would mean Apple would support the iPhone 6s for 6 years post-introduction and 4 years post-discontinuation. If Apple wants to support the iPod touch for a couple years post-discontinuation, they'd probably want to discontinue it now so that they can stop iOS updates in 2-3 years. If they stopped iOS upgrades in 2-3 years, that would mean supporting the iPhone 7 for 7-8 years. That's quite the lifespan for that hardware.
I only have owned one Apple product ever and that's an early gen iPod that I bought used ~10 years ago. It still holds great charge (around twelve hours) with the optimal screen dimming settings, even despite year-long periods of inactivity. Every part of it still works.
I am a Linux fanboy so take it from me that this was actually a great product.
I only ever owned one MP3 player and it was a cheap little thing that ran on a single AAA battery. Plug it into my computer, drag and drop a few dozen albums worth of music, grab some extra batteries and I could listen to music indefinitely when I travelled. Never saw any need for something more than this, and I still don't!
I'm not sure I ever considered the iPod Touch a music player; Apple hasn't made a decent MUSIC PLAYER in years. They've made a lot of very capable portable computers that sit on your wrist or rest in your pocket but there's a lot more noise than signal coming from them ...
Shame! A bunch of our retail clients use them as in-store devices for staff who walk the retail floor -- they don't need to make calls or take gigapixel photos so the iPhone is overkill (and thus expensive) for them. I expect they'll move to Android and mourn the loss of cachet ...
Shucks. I was hoping they'd finally release a new one.
I have an old 6th gen iPod touch that I recently replaced the battery in, and my son uses it a lot. I had thought about getting another one for my daughter, but I was waiting in hopes that apple would release an 8th gen sometime soon.
I’m so miss the ipod nano. Just bought a new ipod last week because sometimes I just want music and books. Audible book sync with iWatch is total shit and rarely works. When I run i don’t want to carry a phone. I feel this is a bad move by Apple but I (somewhat) get it.
I still have a 4th gen iPod Nano, that despite some heavy use in the past still works and plays music perfectly well. I remember it fondly, it was a very well designed piece of hardware. Light, easy controls that could be used without looking, durable, small...
Perhaps a silly question: is there any way to get music (saved mp3 files) onto an old 5th-gen nano from a Chromebook?
Thinking of getting one for my daughter, who has a Chromebook from school. Of course I could manage it from my Mac, but it would be nice to give her the power.
I have been considering getting some kind of dedicated music-playing device. I have a very cheap plan and am not interested in streaming. So I guess this gets ruled out, although the Itunes reputation itself was already something of a negative.
The current iPod touch runs iOS 15 and will be just as good 5 years from now.
The only downside of buying a discontinued Apple product is knowing that you'll have to switch devices if/when it dies, but even that's mitigated by the fact that you'll likely be able to buy used ones for many years.
I work for a company who has purchased iPods for years to deploy a LOB application that uses a specific sled for the iPod with a barcode reader. We buy 100s per year once the batteries expand. Gonna take a lot of developer effort to rewrite.
My first iPod was the 1st generation Nano. I still think it's one of the most beautiful products ever made. I'll miss the iPod era; they really were just magical products, and probably the reason I became interested in the Mac.
I’m using 13 old iPod for one simple reason - its very handy for music and podcasts. Just set the play list “didn’t listen for N weeks” and music is automatically synced, listened podcasts are removed and new are uploaded, etc.
Can you imagine the ridicule Apple would face if they released an iPod without a headphone jack? This seems like a heavy-handed but natural progression of a certain unfortunate series of recent hardware decisions. :(
I had an iPod something-or-other, and I think it gave Spotify the idea of shuffling maybe 45 songs of thousands over-and-over, and completely ignoring 93 percent of the music.
I might pick one of these up so I can do that now in color.
This is a problem with Spotify's shuffling algorithm. It's really stupid, it ignores some songs completely.
They used to have a good algorithm, but because it was truly random, some users complained about hearing the same artist quickly in sequence.
Instead of implementing a list of recently played songs they changed the algorithm to be 'smart' but it's actually quite dumb because it really never plays some songs. Especially when you have only a few artists in the playlist, and some with less songs than others. As I tend to do.
They say it's "more appealing to the human brain" but I think it stinks. I wish they had an option to switch back a truly random one. If I don't like a song I'll skip it anyway. But never presenting some is worse.
I feel prescient. I bought a fully loaded iPod last summer to use in my car. Streaming is NOT an option where I live and I didn't want to pollute my phone with my enormous music collection.
So I just spat Apple in the eye and bought an old iPod classic with iFlash + 1TB SSD retrofitted in it (I do have another one, but I have no sufficient opening-fu to pry it open without damaging).
My standard view is, you should be able to read just the headlines and have some clue about what is happening. Modern marketing means headlines have gone to absolute trash. You can't tell product updates from just stupid SEO spam articles (tips to do x with y). You can't tell product intros from outros.
I do like AWS style announcements. Their headlines are a bit long, but skimming them it's the what, and then the tag
My morbid hot take on the headline was that they'd be allowing you to will your digital music collection to a family member as some kind of covid related estate planning marketing.
Turns out it was something much more benign, but I agree that headlines have gone straight to hell these days.
My big surprise was that they were still selling iPods. I thought there was a hullabaloo about them being discontinued a few years ago. Is my memory just failing?
They discontinued the iPods (Shuffle, Classic, Nano etc) quite a while back. What remained was the iPod Touch, which is basically an old iPhone that has been gutted to remove the cellular portions.
I always thought of the iPod as THE inflection point for Apple. Not the 1998 iMac, not the iPhone, even though it was the latter that made Apple the company it is today. But I think the iPod put Apple on a track to get to the iPhone-it's why Apple/Jobs were even thinking about it. The pod and the phone shared form factors and have always been intertwined in my mind. For that reason, when the iPhone came out, I automatically assumed that Apple had just killed its iPod business. I was wrong, but I suppose that it did eventually come to pass... 15 years later.
>I was wrong, but I suppose that it did eventually come to pass... 15 years later.
It happened way earlier than 2022. iPod has been in life support for the longest time now and arguably the last true iPod was the last iPod Nano in 2012.
I miss my old ipods. I got an ipod mini as a gift from my parents at a graduation age... 19 I think. I traveled to the US for reasons and got a nylon cover for it, making it massively overbuilt but it was a very personal thing for me.
It got stolen from my coat pocket at the canteen area at my weekend job; the lockers were always occupied. Probably by this weasely looking kid who got a new scooter not much later. The company gave me a gift certificate to get a new one out of graciousness I guess, they weren't obligated, and I used that to get an ipod nano.
I mean it was good, but not the same. Anyway, I too loved that one. I contemplated getting an iphone (3G at the time), but eventually decided against it because I'd be locked into a phone contract, without actually using a phone that much, so instead I got an ipod touch. It was neat for having a screen and apps and no contract, but not the same. I ended up using it alongside a regular flip phone for years, and later I got an Android phone (a cheap Samsung) but it languished in my bag because I much preferred the Apple interface and syncing.
Eventually I got an iphone through work and got rid of the flip phone. My ipod touch is in a drawer somewhere, I sometimes charge it up but don't really use it, it's too slow.
Anyway TL;DR I want an ipod mini / nano again, just for music and maybe podcasts, but there's not been any decent competitors filling the gap. I don't really understand why Apple doesn't have more competition for high-end portable devices.
Eh another lump in apples pile of "it still works but now it e-waste" design strat. Just like the early gen still working but discontinued and no longer supported iPads on my cupboard next to me.
This seems like the most indirect way possible to say "we're discontinuing the last iPod". _Most_ of the content of this press release is fine, in my opinion, but saying "iPod Touch is available while supplies last" just doesn't seem like a great way to phrase it.
Agreed. I've changed the title above. If there's a more accurate and neutral title, we can change it again.
HN's title rule is "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait", and corporate press release titles are usually both. For that reason we usually rewrite them.
Google had this down to a science. "An update on..." was the best possible business euphemism for cancelling something, and they did it every time, so you didn't have to read the rest of the article/blog post. "The music lives on" just isn't as good. I know Apple didn't want to copy Google here, but they should have. "An update on [the] iPod Touch". Easy. You know what the update is.
“The Music Lives On” is the part that makes me chuckle at them being Excessively Apple about it, really. I understand they may not have wanted “Finally Killing the iPod” as the headline, or even “The iPod is Gone, but the Music Lives On”, but I can’t help think of Phil Schiller standing on stage a few years back describing removing the headphone jack as “courage”.
I read it like three times to see if I'd missed it. Very strange approach to this. There is no shame in celebrating its impact and saying the brand/category is being retired.
And the weird thing is when you try to say something without saying it, it makes it look like you’re ashamed of it. There’s nothing here to be ashamed of, so why not just say it clearly and succinctly?
> This seems like the most indirect way possible to say "we're discontinuing the last iPod".
To me, the subhead "iPod touch will be available while supplies last" succinctly performs double-duty: (1) We discontinued iPod touch, and (2) if you want (another) one, this is your last chance.
One would think people write these missives, but on further thought, it might be OpenAI trained on 1000s of previously similarly obfuscated press releases.
Yes, if the corporate press release isn't the most insufferable genre that exists, I'm not sure what is. We've changed the title above, in keeping with HN's title rule. More at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31331736.
> "the music _lives_ on" as a title to describe the death of the iPod is such an intolerable attempt at paltering.
Only if you're reading it as a discontinuation notice, but the purpose of the release is far broader than that. It's a celebration of the impact the iPod touch has had on the world, a prompt to iPod touch fans that this is their last chance to buy a new one, and a reminder that Apple continues to express its love of music through other products.
I understand none of that will resonate with you or seem authentic to you, which is fine since you're not the audience for it. For someone who grew up with an iPod touch, it's going to seem as sincere and bittersweet as the person who wrote it intended.
verb [no object] archaic
1 equivocate or prevaricate in action or speech: if you palter or double in your answers, I will have thee hung alive in an iron chain.
2 (palter with) trifle with: this great work should not be paltered with.
DERIVATIVES
palterer noun
ORIGIN
mid 16th century (in the sense ‘mumble or babble’): of unknown origin.
I understand it's really carefully worded, but I tend to feel insulted by a press release that says everything _except_ the message, to make it less harsh.
Great, then they surely won't hesitate now to release any and all documentation for their old hardware, to prevent millions of devices from becoming useless junk even though they're perfectly fine, hardware wise. I've got a nice iPod touch 6th gen here that will be perfect as an mp3 player on linux or rockbox.
Driver source code/detailed hardware documentation for all the components. Signing keys to enable proper persistent installation of custom firmware. In a perfect world, source to whatever the final version of iOS to run on it is.
Basically, everything required for third parties to support the devices to the same level that Apple did before discontinuing them.
---
(Getting downvoted for a strong right to repair stance? I wasn't really expecting that here, but OK.)
Right. It's totally feasible for a community-maintained firmware to keep these devices alive if there was no barrier to installing custom firmware, Apple ought to have a customary "EOL" update for these devices that allows them to be unlocked if the owner chooses.
Some people wanted to believe that Apple's removal of the headphone jack was 'brave' instead of a complete crock of profit-seeking shit, to them I would say that you could buy an iDevice that makes calls and texts, or one with a headphone jack, but not one that could do both. There were two iDevices with headphone jacks left, iPod Touch and the iPad. (iPad Air and iPod Pro don't have them) Now there's just one left, and none that fit in a pocket. Once they discontinue the iPad, your only options will be flaky or nonworking dongles, special-buying wired devices with USB or lightning ports with predictably mediocre sound quality, or eye-wateringly expensive and delicate, and often unreliable, wireless devices.
My last Apple hardware purchase was over five years ago.
I actually think this is a mistake. Lots of kids use it as a handheld gaming device. It is perfect for that. iPad Mini is also great for that but iPod is cheaper and can be replaced more regularly.
When Apple came out with the iPod Touch it made a huge impact in the handheld gaming world. It even caused some gaming companies to focus on handheld more. Now with the Nintendo Switch (even 3DS), SteamDeck and even prior with the PSP there is more competition there. However, it still allows kids to have a device that has their Apple games and not have to use parents phones or having to get them a phone to play.
iPod Touch was one thing Apple had over competitors before the iPad and iPad mini, there wasn't a comparable Android handheld that wasn't a phone.
We make handheld/mobile games and our iPod Touches are nice to have to test smaller screens over using iPhones and optimizing for the smaller devices makes the iPad devices perform better. Lots of gaming companies buy touches up.
I think this is a mistake that will impact them on some of the handheld gaming side. It will also mean more parents phones being used over getting them a more expensive iPad or iPad Touch. It may end up with less devices sold and less games played on Apple devices.
There is also a part of me that wants to take those albums and keep them on an old click-wheel iPod. I always thought the early iPod nanos were among the best consumer hardware devices ever made. Just the right mix of boxy and round; small enough to be novel (at least at the time), but large enough to still be perfectly usable. Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a charge and isn’t battered to all hell is quite difficult these days, and even so, it’s much harder to justify a single use device for music when I literally always have my phone with me.
As someone who was a teen when the iPod really started taking off, it was a constant presence during the time music was starting to become an important part of my life. Sad to see it go, even though really it’s been gone since the iPhone launched.