There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool. I find myself enjoying music significantly less now I have unlimited access to everything I could ever want. It’s become disposable; just background noise rather than something I’m actively experiencing.
There is also a part of me that wants to take those albums and keep them on an old click-wheel iPod. I always thought the early iPod nanos were among the best consumer hardware devices ever made. Just the right mix of boxy and round; small enough to be novel (at least at the time), but large enough to still be perfectly usable. Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a charge and isn’t battered to all hell is quite difficult these days, and even so, it’s much harder to justify a single use device for music when I literally always have my phone with me.
As someone who was a teen when the iPod really started taking off, it was a constant presence during the time music was starting to become an important part of my life. Sad to see it go, even though really it’s been gone since the iPhone launched.
I think this is actually a pretty real concern. I've noticed my appreciation for specific instances of all sorts of media has tanked with wide availability.
I actually used to buy a lot of media so I hit this problem before streaming. As soon as I had a backlog big enough with each type of media that it wasn't straightforward to burn through it, it became a cloud of equally possible stuff with the result I wasn't particularly invested in any of it. Most people were smarter than me re: dumping money into bits on a disc, but now that streaming and/or free-feed libraries have hit most media types, I think the experience is becoming more common.
I think it's a different version of Paradox of Choice: all individualization between the various choices is lost when there's too many. With PoC, the problem is that then you have nothing left by which you can prioritize. In this case, the issue is the loss of all joy you'd have found in the differences.
What's helped a little for me is going on "kicks," like finding all the bands I liked that did EDM-metal hybrid, or all the found footage movies I liked, etc. Constraining the pool you're selecting from first makes it easier, and having a mission of some kind makes it easier still.
Child of the 90s here and my parents wouldn’t get cable TV.
This meant my access to movies was basically whatever was on broadcast TV that night or if I was really lucky whatever was available at our local video rental store.
I remember not always loving whatever movie we chose (or whatever was on TV) but I watched it because it’s what I had.
Now, like many others, I stare at the home screen of a few different services each night, start and stop a few different things, then give up.
Personally I think that has more to do with what movie offerings there are today vs 20 years ago. I could absolutely care less about the latest comic book movie but that seems to be where movie studios have put all their effort.
On the other hand, TV series have never been better - we seem to be in some kind of golden age where you can find tons of high quality well acted series on every streaming service. There was a bit of a lull (for me) during Covid, but my backlog is completely full through the next year.
The consolidation of movie studios (mostly into Disney lately...) hasn't been helping either. There used to be plenty of small studios that would do "weird" stuff - it wasn't going to be a huge commercial success, but it would probably make back the modest budget it had.
There's always older films to watch. I'm at a point where I'd far rather put the time into something older, with solid actors, than watch the latest and greatest mostly-CG special effects laden [whatever]. That most of those movies are unwatchable unless you're "deep into the fandom" doesn't encourage me to invest in them either. And if it's not those, it's the "How can we prequel all the popular things," even when it makes no sense at all. To yell at a cloud briefly, Han Solo doesn't need a prequel. He's a standard drifter archetype, and to nail his past down doesn't do the character any service at all.
> greatest mostly-CG special effects laden [whatever]
There was some threshold that was crossed probably close to a decade ago for me where CG effects stopped being interesting in any way, but watching older movies with their incredible special effects and stuntmen really does look impressive to me. There is no CG in the world that compares to the immersion in Apocalypse Now, for example.
I do think there are many ways to use CG to subtly support the impact of a scene driven by characters, but when the scene itself is driven by the CG (in ways that are unrealistic for actors or stuntmen to perform) it just feels like a lazy way to progress a storyline.
Mad Max Fury Road stands out for their general lack of CG - and it shows in the movie. The thing is filled with practical effects, and it just looks right as a result. They don't have to simulate the physics of someone swinging around attached to the end of a fiberglass pole when they... just attached someone to the end of a fiberglass pole. The dirtbike trajectories look right, because... they filmed dirtbikes jumping the convoy. The flamethrowing guitar on top of the truck filled with speakers is exactly that. Etc.
Yes, there's some CG for the flame effects and such, but the bulk of it is just practical effects - and when you watch it, the movie stands out because of them. Everything they're doing can be done - as proven by the fact that they did it. Is it insane madness in the desert? Yes, but they filmed insane madness in the desert.
I started getting annoyed at CG heavily around the Star Wars Prequel days - when you've got movies in which the plot serves the tech demo, not the other way around. That's not a style of storytelling I enjoy, and more and more it seems to be the style used.
There are actually around 2,000 VFX shots in the film, but I think they really nailed the mix between practical and VFX in a way that makes the sum of the parts greater.
You mean you absolutely could not care less. (And neither could I.)
I agree though, fortunately I'm someone who doesn't mind rewatching old films I like, and also there are surely many greats I've yet to see. Television is not all hits, but there seem to be many more than in film, and then once you have one that's firstly and most simply more hours of entertainment; secondly it's a virtuous circle having more time for character and plot development etc.
Surely you're joking, right?
I've never encountered those two phrases where they meant the same thing.
Couldn't care less - absolute zero care. Nothing can disappoint me whatever happen.
Could care less - some degree of care is present. Thing can actually get worse
"Could care less" is an idiom, derived from a sarcastic acknowledgement that you haven't quite reached the theoretical minimum, absolute-0 of caring. "Well, I suppose I could care less..."
I agree on the start-stop thing. You need to stop doing that :) I used to get DVDs through the post from LoveFilm and would nearly always watch the movies through to the end, even if they didn't seem great in the first 20 mins. Often I would be glad I stuck with it as many movies are a "slow burn". With streaming there is a constant nagging doubt that I'm missing out on something better and should jump ship if a movie/show doesn't grab me immediately. One way out of this is to force yourself to stick with your choice or do something else (like read a book!) ... that works for me.
Never been a social guy, but I found enjoyable a short talk with the guy at the counter.
He gave me his opinion on the tape I was about to checkout and made suggestions about the new acquisitions. I guess after some weeks he knew my tastes and give a human-curated list, hehehe. They mostly tend to by nerdy, so we made a good fit, but they curated the list to old ladies, families and so...
A miss here and there, but I always found something enjoyable in all tapes. Even in the low budget, low quality ones.
This is such a large problem that it's a cultural meme that nobody can decide what to watch on Netflix, or what music to listen to on Spotify, or what game to play from their Steam library.
There's just too much of everything. There are too many musicians, movies, and games that friends, family, and the recommendation algorithms all swear I absolutely must experience before I can call my life complete.
Another take: too many posts on HN about languages, algorithms, start-ups, fund-raising, etc, etc. I'm here because I like to read through lots of that stuff! But it has also made admire it all, maybe a little too much.
As I'm in the late stage process of potentially joining a start-up, I am doing so much what-if and what-about-that analysis and it is completely paralyzing my decision process! But it reminded me that I was once a 20-year-old sophomore in college that created a business plan with a friend for a start-up without once wondering what else might be out there. Times have changed.
I clearly remember feeling this fatigue already 20 years ago when piracy became super easy and i went from the teenage paradigm of buying one album, say, a month, and learning the ins and outs of it for that month, to having more in my hard drive than i could chew on. I remember thinking oh back in the day it was easier to love music!
I have since learned to stop being nostalgic about the scarcity and instead trying to be more, um, mindful of my consumption. Genre rabbit holes are great. Live music is too. I avoid the recommender algorithms as much as i can instead going for albums or curated compilations - much prefer YouTube to Spotify for this. When people let the algorithm play, I can clearly hear the lack of intentionality and it bothers me immensely.
Remember that we have unlimited access to super-hero and algorithmically scripted movies. I had more options in my VHS rental stores than in current streaming offerings. It is very hard to find classic movies of non anglo-american directors. I had access to these movies in my third world big city rental store.
I've kept all my old records, hard drives full of mp3s, and even cassette tapes knowing that this era was coming.
Twitter trends and YouTube as well is full of music on rails, polished pop stars that are working to spin their unremarkable music into an acting career, and it generates underwhelming results for music.
It's the very reason why device makers are getting rid of headphone jacks, and why storage is kept low, even on new on phones, and other devices. Soon we'll only have streaming as a choice, we won't be able to maintain a music collection any more for various reasons like HD/SSD failure, and mysteriously, making deeper choices will be more expensive, even though the artists don't get paid until they give in to the commercial song playlist machine.
There is literally volumes of the absolute best music being made on YouTube, but it never sees the light of day... I have to regularly go through hurdles to find it in places where artists themselves share it, and it's depressing to see them with only 50 views in many cases, completely ignored by algos.
I say this as someone who has run an underground music label for years now, the job of being a successfully creative and different artist is becoming impossible fast, and as a result, the process of finding music based on real talent is fading with it.
Hang onto your vinyl and hope your legacy devices don't get worn out, or enjoy non stop billboard top 10 on an infinite loop (Or Metallica's unforgiven again... on the radio... on infinite loop... after those 10 liberty mutual commercials). :/
> There is literally volumes of the absolute best music being made on YouTube, but it never sees the light of day... I have to regularly go through hurdles to find it in places where artists themselves share it, and it's depressing to see them with only 50 views in many cases, completely ignored by algos.
This is my experience too. And I think "algos" are doing music-lovers a disservice…
Technology has the potential to democratise music making. You can produce music on any computer. If you make electronic music you need nothing else. If you play physical instruments you need a bit, but not much more, gear to get the sound into the computer to produce tracks which you can publish online.
So, if you want to make music, you can – no one can stop you! And you can put it online and anyone can access it, in theory, but making it discoverable by an audience is a completely different matter.
The streaming services do not need new and innovative music made with passion by god and everybody. They need the old hits, which people look for, and small amount of "new hits" to push on people to make everything feel fresh.
I want to say that there could be a different streaming service, which better serves the audience and makers, but I am not sure exactly what that means.
> There is literally volumes of the absolute best music being made on YouTube, but it never sees the light of day...
For many (most?) people, the most important role of music is participating in a shared culture. You want to be able to sing along with the same songs as your friends, to get the references made in conversation, to share moments together with a soundtrack in the background.
To the extent there is absolute quality for music, it is secondary to what people want. The thing where most everyone in a group listens to the same stuff on repeat is an important feature of the process.
If you go back to the 70s and 80s which, I'd argue, were peak decades for the sheer volume of music talent there was a social dimension which died with web 2.0 and that was shared music culture provided by radio and TV. In the UK programmes such as Top Of The Pops, The Old Grey Whistle Test, The Tube, the John Peel Show were part of this shared culture which was the backdrop of everyone's social life. Youtube and Spotify wiped this out.
For me the discovery functionality of Spotify and 3rd party discovery tools work perfectly. I keep discovering new music, the algorithm has learned my tastes pretty well, yet there are still tools if I want to go beyond that.
just some examples, in Asia put your MV on YouTube is a very basically way to publish it. people who use this way from personal singers to K-pop companies.
At least on Spotify, ‘the algo’ has put me on artists that have less than a thousand monthly listeners. I don’t know how much more obscure you want it..
There's a middle ground, too -- you can host music streaming for your own library through [Jellyfin](https://jellyfin.org/) (or Plex, or a few other alternatives) for the backend and something like [FinAmp](https://github.com/UnicornsOnLSD/finamp) on the frontend. Easy to curate your own library, and you can avoid the "sync problem" when you download a new album.
There are some bugs to iron out in the setup, but my raspberry pi home server has been running this great for 5 months now, and offline media served me very well through a cross-country move. It's a great opportunity to take back some agency from Spotify, start contributing to artists on bandcamp or similar, and cut another annoying monthly subscription from your life.
When someone hands me their phone to play music on Spotify at this point, I find the front page absolutely overwhelming. It's sort of like going back to cable after streaming for years, and seeing your first ad. You wonder how you ever put up with it.
I've been frustrated with Spotify's UI for so long now. It just seems so full of dark... or at least dim(?) user patterns. I started buying albums from bands I like off Bandcamp and loading them into Plexamp. (I really hope Epic doesn't destroy Bandcamp, it's one of the few remaining sources of high-quality (FLAC) downloadable music.)
Bandcamp is great; the only marketplace I have found with fair and reasonable terms for both producers and consumers of music. I never buy music anywhere else these days and am rather worried about Epic Games' acquisition.
I do the same thing, and recommend this setup to any music fan comfortable setting up a Plex server.
I share your concern that Epic will ruin Bandcamp, but part of me wonders if that wouldn't be a good thing in the long run. I don't think Bandcamp tried to monopolize digital file sales for independent music, but they kind of have, and that's bad.
I'd love to see a good open source music store pop up that labels and bands could easily self-host. You could probably build all the core Bandcamp features into a WordPress plugin in a weekend.
Similar feelings here. I switched from Spotify a month or two before Epic bought bandcamp, and I’m very nervous about the platform going forward. They kind of suck for mass downloads (they throttle you very quickly), so be warned before you buy a ton of albums through them. But at the same time… Bandcamp feels so much less scummy than Spotify that I’m happy to throw them Spotify subscription money every month.
I do something similar with the subsonic protocol by locally hosting Airsonic[0] and listening with Strawberry Player[1] on Desktop and iSub[2] on iOS. Using Tailscale[3], I'm able to stream my library on the go. Best part is that all this infra is free and pretty hands-off maintenance-wise.
I do the same, though I recently switched from subsonic to navidrome.
My home music server has my wife and I’s mp3 collection that we’ve been building since like 2000. However, I’m continuously buying new music on bandcamp and scouring music blogs, and the collection grew until she was overwhelmed by the selection. So then I took her old click-wheel ipod music collection (which broke, but she had the music backed up), and I put that on a USB which is plugged into our Yamaha Musiccast receiver. The interface is pretty simple in the musiccast app (scroll and choose). She’s happy to have her collection locked to like 2012 in an ipod-like fashion.
But she still misses that ipod. The screen started fading, and I took it apart to replace parts, and in the process I screwed up the battery. It only works when docked and dies immediately when undocked.
Nice breakdown! I use wireguard myself, but several friends keep trying to convert me to Tailscale. I’m strongly of the opinion that WG is working, so I’ll just let it keep working. But if I had to set up a VPN from scratch, Tailscale is awfully tempting.
Honestly, the only reason I use Tailscale is bc the set-up was easier than WG and the subnet router is handy (though not essential)[0].
I'd just be using WG if I figured out how to set it up the first time ahaha. It's nice to get rid of third-parties whenever possible, especially when it comes to my personal IT infrastructure.
Been using iTunes Match for years and it’s great. I have a load of stuff in my library which was either never released digitally (eg em:t) or was deleted (eg The KLF). Oink.
I have been using iTunes Match for years and now use Apple Music. I love it, especially the integration. Combine that with CarPlay and the audio entertainment options really open up.
Question to stuartd: I am concerned about how long Apple will support iTunes Match. Have you thought about what you would switch to in order to stream your Apple Music/iTunes when or if Apple sunsets iTunes Match as a service?
My suspicion is that they're not going to get rid of that functionality -- it continues to be a differentiator between them and Spotify. And, assuming that's right, they don't have any particular pressure to get rid of the standalone iTunes Match service. I know there's the argument that they might get rid of the $25/yr service in order to force people onto the $99/yr service. But it seems quite likely to me that Apple figures anyone still paying for iTunes Match but not Apple Music just doesn't want Apple Music, which makes the consideration in Apple's accounting department not "$99 > $25" but "$25 > $0".
Having said that, in the really early days it (or my phone, an iPhone 4 and later a 6S) was a terrible experience a lot of the time. Even with good Wi-Fi I’d wait for songs to play and then they would probably still stutter. It’s seamless now though, as long as I have a decent mobile signal.
This is interesting. Considering most of our Home internet connection have upload bandwidth far greater than music streaming. A consumer, simple and easy to use devices for this.
Steve Jobs was against the whole Streaming Music services idea. At the time I would have thought the next move for iTunes would be to have free Streaming of songs you have purchased. Which is somewhat similar to this idea.
The other middle ground, between self hosting and streaming if you will, is to connect your music library to a streaming service like https://asti.ga/ .
I guess this is effectively outsourcing the self hosting bit. You can connect to locally stored music files via WebDAV or just upload your collection to any of the big cloud storage providers.
I've been a Plex user for years. I started playing around with Jellyfin this week and I think I'll probably use both for a while since they can share the same library.
Plexamp has been great for music. I can put on any CD I own, in FLAC quality, without having to go locate the physical disc. I've spent much of pandemic filing in holes in the back catalog of my favorite artists.
If I want a mix, I tend to open up Tidal and let it build a "radio station" based on my mood.
Also a plex user for music and have also played with Jellyfin. My impression is that in a couple years Jellyfin will be the go to but that it isn't quite up to snuff with Plex yet (especially wrt music) though some projects like JellyAmp are changing that.
Navidrome is far and away the best self hosted streaming music server. I set up half a dozen and wasn't happy until I tried that one. The developer is very friendly and responsive too.
I have always loved music and still do. I think what you describe has in part been due to scarcity. But in part it has to do with growing up. As a teenager you are often bored out of your whole mind and so have time to focus on music. You also listen to the lyrics and the ideas presented are brand new and meaningful. Later in life you are less likely to find truly novel albums, or even songs; maybe a phrase here and there but a record is less likely to capture your imagination.
Here is my solution to enjoying music: treat it as a soundtrack to your life. Create themed playlists. Spotify has collaborative playlists built in and I have a couple of friends who are or were professional DJs. I will start a playlist and then have them add things to it based on the theme and feeling. This process has gotten better and better. I now enjoy high quality music that I love while also discovering new artists and records.
I'm in my 50s and I still listen to new music that moves me to both excitement and tears. I don't use streaming services and just maintain my own library and always have. Many of the bands I listen to have members older than I am, but they are still actively making new music.
I'm also in my 50s and was doing just what you do, then tediously went through hundreds of CDs and then tons of legit iTunes purchases to track what music i liked, and then converted to using Spotify, which has been excellent, though with a UI somewhat clunky, though nowhere as annoying as Apple Music the times i've tried using it.
This is me as well and is the primary reason I still buy albums on vinyl. I'm not an audiophile snob or anything, I just think that listening to music on vinyl is deliberate enough to overcome the "disposable" issue that you're describing. If I want to listen to an album, I have to go to the room in my house with the turntable, open the album, put it on, set the tone arm, etc. It's very deliberate and it helps me appreciate and dedicate time to music.
I forget where I was reading/listening to it (may well have been a podcast), but I recall someone talking about printing out tiny artwork for NFC tags and configuring them in such a way that scanning them played the one album printed on it. I thought that was super neat—still got the convenience of digital music, but it is still a deliberate action as you describe.
I've also turned to vinyl for this, and while I love it, I will say I yearn for something that doesn't involve the dreaded 'flip' especially on modern double albums. 3 songs per side goes by so fast. Maybe this is why people still use cassettes?
Not cassettes but a dedicated CD player is what I use for this stuff.
I have certain custom mixtape style mood music CDs depending on how the scene in my novel is supposed to feel tonally, for example.
Yes I could make those into YouTube playlists, but the ritual of putting in the right CD has something to say for it, and also my CDs never have advertisements that manage to sneak past all of my layers of adblock, nor do they suddenly decide to be unavailable on one particular day or another.
I remember when I added a CD player to my audio setup a couple of years ago—which previously just had a radio tuner, vinyl turntable and a cassette deck. I kept my old CDs and my partner has even more. I had gotten used to the OK sound quality of vinyl, cassette and FM radio (or youtube on my computer speakers). So when I put the CD in and played it I was amazed how good it sounds, I simply had forgotten how good CD can sound with a good audio setup.
I still play records though, simply because it is more fun, but if I want quality I play CDs.
I bought a Vinyl player (AT-LP60XBT) but rarely use it because I feel like I can't tell a difference between it and Spotify through my speakers (Edifier S350DB). Only difference seems to be it's more inconvenient.
It feels like the inconvenience is what people _like_ about vinyl? But maybe my setup just isn't good enough to tell a difference?
Kinda. It's not that we like the inconvenience. We like that it's something that you have to commit to doing. You can't really go for a run or a drive or work on things. You're sitting down just to listen to music and, while you can do that with digital media too, it's much more deliberate with physical media.
>>> Only difference seems to be it's more inconvenient.
This is where we differ. For me that is not an inconvenience but part of the experience. I enjoy picking a record to play, removing it from the cover, checking it for dust or dirt, and putting it on the turntable. Probably mostly for nostalgic reasons.
My thoughts exactly. That's one of the big advantages that vinyl comes with, for me personally.
This and that I'm very deliberate about keeping track of new music I want to listen to (my queue). EDIT: There was a tool posted here on Show HN a few days ago that seemed interesting for this sort of stuff but I can't seem to find it now.
As a counterpoint, I enjoy music more now. Music discovery is light years ahead of where it was in the iPod era. There's no additional cost to exploring as many artists and genres as you want. Also, streaming services are doing nothing to prevent you from listening to music the old way. Yeah, Spotify has a huge library, but it's not like the whole thing is on shuffle. If you find you're not spending the time to enjoy specific things, that's ultimately your problem.
I do get where you're coming from, I'm very nostalgic for my old click-wheel iPod. Probably the biggest downside in moving away from physical media in my mind is the loss of the rest of the album art.
> There's no additional cost to exploring as many artists and genres as you want.
Not that I want music discovery to cost more, but I do think a consequence can be that it’s also easier to not discover music you might otherwise have. If I buy an album, and it doesn’t immediately capture me, I have N-1 other tracks waiting to change my mind. And I’m invested in that possibility. Endless discovery possibilities gives me an incentive to move on to another artist. Sure, I might like that other artist too. But pretty much all of my now-favorite artists were a pass before they grew on me.
I’m not saying that’s the attitude everyone should have, or that others wouldn’t or even ought to explore this way. Just sharing my own perspective for whatever it’s worth.
On the other hand, coming to love pretty much all of my now-favorite artists wasn’t a waste of time.
And this isn’t like a chore I’ve set out to get musically enriched. It’s just “oh yeah, I have that album! I didn’t like it last time but I’m in the mood to have another listen.” Some of these have been years between and sudden discoveries that I had buried my own treasures.
It I’ve ever felt like trying to appreciate an album was a chore but one I wanted to pursue anyway, it was Radiohead’s Amnesiac. I loved the band already but felt put off by the work at first. Even then, I put it away, came back later and fell in love on whichever was the next fresh listen.
But several of my favorite artists, I literally had no interest in at all at first. Then they just caught me in the right moment and the right emotional space. Some of these albums date back to the first I bought, around 13ish(?) and have been favorites for well over 20 years.
Again I don’t think everyone should experience music this way. It’s just my experience. My only point in sharing it, besides sharing a bit of my own joy, is to welcome other people who do find it appealing to either pursue it or feel less oddball for it.
You’re welcome to enjoy listening and discovering music however you see fit. I’m glad you like what you like! This isn’t a conflict or at least it shouldn’t be.
Edit: I also want to be clear, my investment in revisiting music I'd panned wasn’t monetary at all. I have hundreds of CDs I listened to once or twice and tossed in a binder, ignored ever since. My investment is “something about this work felt interesting to me; it still does, even if I’m not ready for it now; I want to revisit it again, and having some artifact [whether it’s a physical album or even just a download] leaves me something to re-discover.”
Right, I totally get this point, I'm not trying to be dismissive. I've had similar experiences. I'm just saying I've also bought something and felt guilty for not enjoying it, and spent time trying and failing to get into it.
Welp, devotion plays the largest role when it comes to enjoying something, and paying for an album already means the person is already devoted into it. Devotion allows juicing out more fun from the same item.
Modding old iPods to have them run flash memory and decent batteries is pretty common, you could look into that. I'm still using my 17 years old iPod 5G like this. Flashed with Rockbox it reads every file format (mostly FLAC) I could ever want.
One of my favourite teachers at school noted this phenomenon long before streaming was a thing. He said that once he got a favourite film on DVD he actually watched it less. Whereas before he would watch it whenever it was on TV, he can now watch it whenever he wants, so why watch it ever?
I've noticed a related phenomenon: too much choice induces anxiety. If there are like 5 films showing in the cinema it's usually obvious which one to pick. Maybe I'll watch another later in the week. But now I can watch any film ever made and I often find it hard to choose because there is a fear of missing out on all the other films I could have chosen.
I have discovered so many (good) bands via Spotify over the past 5 years it's honestly insane. If I had stuck to "guessing" at what I might like, I would not have had such a rich collection of new music from relatively unknown or foreign artists. It's also allowed me to sample so many varieties of genres without any direct monetary involvement. I wouldn't trade it for the world honestly.
I also support the artists I listen to by buying merch/going to concerts to supplement the pittance they get from streaming royalties.
I’ve abandoned streaming because you never own the music and they remove artists and albums or don’t carry some versions that I like. Youtube music and hype machine serve me well when i just want to hear something new, but otherwise I’ve been back to building my own music file library and using a media server to access it anywhere
It’s not quite the tangible feel of the ipod you describe but I find a great joy in my library being mine and not having any social or promotional features (« hot albums this week » etc.), i know what is in there and what comes in and goes out. The UI is utilitarian and not trying to drive engagement or generate revenue from me, I love it.
I've never moved to streaming; I still just load songs onto my phone. I don't feel like I'm really missing out on anything. I buy things on CD (often used) or vinyl-with-download-code or Bandcamp mostly.
Same camp here, with the exception of soundcloud - it has such a variety of user-generated content, as well as longer sets (multi-hour mixes, DJ sets, other long-form content) that you just can't find on other platforms.
The biggest benefit for me is finding new music, Spotify's discover feature is how I find most new music these days and it's decently accurate at finding things I like.
To be a counter-anecdote: I love streaming music, I listen to far more and far wider variety than I did more. I can definitely see why that'd be a downside for some, but I love it.
My only real complaint is that nothing wants to work together, so migrating services / backing up playlists / etc is a real nightmare. But I never actually maintained that in any real fashion to begin with, so I do the ones I care about by hand and ignore the rest and I've become fine with that.
That’s exactly what I do. Having all the music is essentially the same as having none of the music. I buy an album a month, usually (plus more on my birthday and at Christmas), and have my iPhone set up so that the music is the 32M of least-played music, plus anything rated 3 stars that I’ve not heard in two years, 4 stars that I’ve not heard in a year and 5 stars that I’ve not heard in six months. It gives me a nice mix of fresh tracks and favorites.
Part of what you described is due to streaming, but it’s also the production side making music available for this type of consumption. That’s been a long time in the making as labels consolidate and big artists become sex symbols, actors, and basically lifestyle influencers while singing generically machine-crafted music that has no lasting potential. Moreover, TikTok is becoming a recruiting ground for record labels. My guess is singles are going to get shorter and even more ephemeral, just like all the “culture” streaming into our phone screens. So what you’re describing to me is an extension of fatigue with a trend that doesn’t try to make things to last.
Having physical media or something that is individual to the music makes me respect my collection and helps bring it to life. I can’t stream from a big service because it ruins the feeling. I don’t really listen to much music on my phone either unless I’m in the car. I like it that way. It feels defiant that I’m not just randomly bombarding my ears with whatever cool new trash is being forced into my ears.
the tendency of artists “becoming sex symbols, actors, and basically lifestyle influencers while singing generically machine-crafted music” if not basically being the case for the entire history of recorded music, at least predates streaming by many decades. it’s also not exclusive to music and has a long history in basically every artistic industry.
Absolutely. But now more than ever it's about the brand, and not the individual. But I think this primarily applies to mainstream music where the artist is likely to have a few hits over a couple years, only to fade out (unless they can build the brand). Go outside mainstream music, and chances are that you'll see something completely different.
yeah I agree that it's a phenomenon, I just don't think it arose recently because of streaming. if anything, streaming makes it easier to access artists' back catalogs. not sure the degree to which this increases the longevity of mainstream pop artists, but I don't see any obvious way that it contributes to the "problem".
Sony still makes digital Walkmans. Pretty much an updated Nano, some of them even have clickwheel-like interfaces. I have one, it served me well until I just broke down and bought lightning headphones to listen to Spotify with on my phone. Once I replace my phone with either a Librem 5 or a LineageOS device, I can go back to using my music library.
I think that I solved this problem, I did it through self-discipline, categorically avoiding any recommendation system on any platform I use. I only ever listen to music that was either on one of my playlists, or on a playlist that a friend shared with me, etc.
Music that is part of my own playlists is there because I discovered it organically (was in a movie I watched, heard on the radio etc.) which is the same as you would discover it pre-streaming.
Songs and playlists that friends share with me is the equivalent of old cassettes that friends would make for you.
I do the same thing outside of music streaming too, there are browser extensions like Undistracted that can help avoiding recommendation systems (but unfortunately Undistracted doesn't work on Spotify).
I want to abandon streaming too, but because the service is sh*t, unreliable, non-friendly.
The self curated playlist idea on a nice dedicated device is also very attractive, not least because I still do that on streaming, pity that its support is an Nth tier for the providers behind 'intelligent' and 'AI' and 'just for you' bullsh*t pushed into my face, dealing with own lists is very often a struggle or even an uphill battle.
Yes, I should pick up the old habits too and pay attention more to 'own mix albums', elevating the experience.
> There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool.
I highly encourage giving it a try if you’re inclined. I personally never took to streaming services, largely for the reasons you express.
For me it’s mostly because I dislike shuffle, and prefer listing to full albums. Not a hipster snobby thing, it just fits my attention span better and has led to several artists becoming favorites when I’d felt pretty meh about their singles.
I'm dumbfounded by this move by Apple as the iPod was one of the innovations which kicked Apple into the big league. There is also a large population of users who, for over a decade, have been using an iPod without a Mac or an iPhone and who rely on iTunes for Windows to manage their music. Not everyone can afford nearly £1000 for an iPhone, especially if the main reason is to provide continuity for their now deceased iPod experience. Then again Apple never gave a damn about obsolescence. When Big Sur was released I learned that my early 2013 MacBook Pro wasn't compatible yet only this week I was able to download a simple fix from OpenCore which enabled to me load Monterey and have it working perfectly. If one guy could pull this off why couldn't Apple with their resources? Truth is they wanted to make my MacBook Pro incompatible - by mere designation - just like they resisted the right to repair until forced to play ball. If Apple respected their loyal base of iPod users they could at least continue to produce replacement iPod batteries. That would be a minimal good-will gesture.
Streaming is just a medium. How you curate and listen is the message. I might be a bit older than average here but I converted to iPod on first generation and I’m on the streaming bandwagon now but I never got into the habit of shuffling. I listen to albums, track by track in order. Always have regardless of the tech I was using and don’t feel like I’ve missed much. Actually I’ve gained a bit because I can branch out pretty wide from my core stuff and I can put on a playlist for ease when I just want background noise. Also, I remember the feeling of buying an album out of pure curiosity and thinking it was trash. That doesn’t happen any more.
So really all to say, it might be worth trying some habit hacks before flipping the whole thing over.
The part I don’t always like is the app experience. Not that it’s hard to use but browsing a shelf /rack is so much better. Just like finding a movie at blockbuster was easier than on Netflix. Grocery store > instacart.
That's what I've been doing. Since going remote I've been buying about one post rock instrumental album per month from Bandcamp to listen to while I work. Then I download to my NAS and re-upload to my (free tier) YouTube Music account.
I just wish Amazon digital albums were available in Canada, I don't want to have to buy CDs.
I very much feel you. I have a pretty large mp3 collection that is a mix of pirated, bought or ripped from (library) CDs. I started using Spotify only a few years ago when maintaining a phone library started to get cumbersome. Geniunely hated their reccomendation algorithm.
I've discovered nts.live somewhere in 2021 and have been listening a lot to their shows. The selection of music is diverse and very obviuosly curated.
Where else would I find a podcast of lofi outsider pop that ventures from brittle shoegaze/ambient track into one of the greatest disoc/pop songs ever sung by a 10 year old girl: https://www.nts.live/shows/okonkole-y-trompa/episodes/okonko... (Around 1h40min)
> There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool.
I used to do this before the streaming services existed. I used to buy a handful of MP3's from Amazon (don't laugh) per month. I would also buy used CDs and rip it to MP3. Apple Music is included with monthly cell phone bill so I now "rent" some of my music now, it's just easier. I'm careful not to just download whole albums outright though, I have a curated collection of songs I like and I still use the old star ratings in iTunes. I also pay for $25/year for iTunes Match to maintain my legacy collection.
My first iPod was the original Shuffle. The one that was basically a thumb drive with a headphone jack and some buttons. It's still sitting around somewhere, I think. It was a brilliant little device for its time, just an objectively good product. It was easy to use. It didn't try to sell you stuff, it didn't try to box you into buying more Apple products. It just was, and it was good.
As for buying albums- Do it. Something about listening to a whole album puts my head at ease. My car's glovebox is stuffed with CDs I got in places ranging from the local bookstore to a dive bar in Memphis. It's great music, but it's also a fond memory.
>There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool.
This is what I do! And for similar reasons. It's actually really great because a) you can pick up used CDs and vinyl for cheap, b) you get to listen to the whole album, c) there are no screens involved. I didn't realize how oppressive screen-based music selection has become until I ditched it. I love my setup (and you can pick up great used audio equipment for cheap now, too.) Just do it - and if you don't like it you can get rid of it all on ebay.
I'm looking into a slightly less retro take on this, with the files stored on my phone and played via bluetooth.
Is anyone aware of any geeky workflows for this, e.g. having a giant collection on a server and regularly updating the local selection. A simple player app etc. A service independent way to store favourite tracks and playlists etc.
Or have streaming services stolen all tha air from this sector?
The aggressivness of Apple Music hints that those services will start getting annoying.
I support my favorite artists directly on Bandcamp by buying their digital albums. I put them in my personal Plex server to listen when/wherever. And you usually get download options for lossless formats.
Will sometimes buy the vinyl version as they usually come with a digital download. It's even nicer to lay on the couch and blast the full album without any iPod clicking to deal with ;)
> Sad to see it go, even though really it’s been gone since the iPhone launched.
I've seen it being carried as a daily driver instead of a phone by few privacy and security conscious folks. Considering that use case, iPod Touch was a great value for money. Guess they'll carry iPad mini now i.e. if they really want to stick with Apple (app) ecosystem.
Yeah i loved the Ipod, and I loved the ability to listen to "my music" whenever i wanted. It was a major game changer, and now I can do the same but "my music" no longer feels special so it hardly seems to matter. Media has become a commodity good with the maturation of the internet, substitute goods have never been easier to find.
I do the same thing with Netflix. I used to get DVDs (then Blu-rays) but their quality was consistently bad (damaged discs) and their collection has turned to crap. So now I just stream Netflix (cuz the family would lynch me otherwise), but I buy a Blu-ray every month with the money I'm saving.
I buy Blu-Rays for films and shows I really like. Streaming services may be 4K, but the bitrate of a 4K stream is typically just a fraction of even a 1080p BD, and it really shows.
I've been doing this, would definitely recommend it. I have also considered getting an old school music player, but I'd rather not carry around yet another device when a big reason I bought the phone I bought was having a headphone jack.
If your phone has a slot for an SD card, load it up (opus sounds good enough for on the go) with your collection and you can have the benefits of an old school player behind an app interface on the phone you already carry everywhere.
Phones these days have so much internal storage that I haven't had to use an sd card, although my phone does have a slot for one. I prefer to use plex and plexamp for my music so I have the conveniences of streaming services with the ownership and classic music player feel of old school devices.
Having tried Youtube Music, Tidal and Amazon Music, I feel that the UIs of most streaming apps and even most music apps in general are not that great.
You can buy the songs on iTunes or whatever it is called and then you can later sync it to an iPod - and there are repairs on youtube where they put in fresh new batteries.
> There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think might be cool. I find myself enjoying music significantly less now I have unlimited access to everything I could ever want. It’s become disposable; just background noise rather than something I’m actively experiencing.
I strongly prefer the "sit down and listen to a whole album" experience anyway, at least from artists who make a deliberate attempt to put together a cohesive album and not just one or two bangers and a bunch of filler.
Sitting down and listening to a Bowie album or something is a time capsule, and I'm not a boomer so it's not childhood nostalgia either. It's nice to sit down and listen to an hour of music that was specifically curated to produce a certain experience.
> Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a charge and isn’t battered to all hell is quite difficult these days, and even so, it’s much harder to justify a single use device for music when I literally always have my phone with me.
FYI you can replace the battery in an iPod... someone pointed me towards Cameron Sino as being an extremely reputable supplier of replacements (I've known of them for a long time but I had no idea they sold direct to consumer!).
Also, if you are not enamored with needing to use iTunes, the "Rockbox" open-source firmware targets Apple hardware and that should allow it to act like a plain old USB Mass Storage device. I used to use it like 15+ years ago on my iRiver H320 music player.
(the name "iRiver" actually predates the ipod! They were a korean company who became known for making very capable flash and HDD mp3 players for their day, with OGG Vorbis support and line-in recording and many other neat features.)
Also also, if you are interested in improvements, or your HDD died, you can get an IDE-to-CF adapter or perhaps SD/MicroSD or mSATA or M.2 (not sure what's available nowadays) and use a normal flash drive. At the time they were popular this often implied a reduction in capacity, but flash is big now and you can probably get like a 1TB drive and with Rockbox it should recognize it. Not all cards work, but I think the dividing line is often "cards that speak IDE" vs cards that don't - many of the high-spec CompactFlash cards actually have a "native IDE" mode so they speak the same protocol as the original drive did. It also substantially improves battery life, because you're going from a spinning drive pulling a couple watts to a flash card pulling ~nothing.
If your device is physically battered to hell then yeah, not much you can do besides try to find a replacement. But if your ipod is still in decent shape with a fresh battery and a flash adapter it'll be better than new. Do try to minimize the number of assembly/disassembly cycles though, there's lots of little plastic clips in most devices and they won't last forever.
Also, Fiio made some devices with very similar ergonomics to the ipod (eg the scroll wheel) like the X5 and X5ii, although like most others they've gone to android nowadays. I have an X5ii that will take a pair of 128GB microSD cards and it has a solid hifi headphone amp built in.
There is also a part of me that wants to take those albums and keep them on an old click-wheel iPod. I always thought the early iPod nanos were among the best consumer hardware devices ever made. Just the right mix of boxy and round; small enough to be novel (at least at the time), but large enough to still be perfectly usable. Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a charge and isn’t battered to all hell is quite difficult these days, and even so, it’s much harder to justify a single use device for music when I literally always have my phone with me.
As someone who was a teen when the iPod really started taking off, it was a constant presence during the time music was starting to become an important part of my life. Sad to see it go, even though really it’s been gone since the iPhone launched.